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Post subject: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:33 pm
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I'm new here and looking for help with identifying my Strat. I bought it used from Veneman's Music near Baltimore in 1996. It was marked Made in America, came in a case that said Fender USA, and invoiced to me as a used American Standard. It was my first Fender guitar, and I had no reason or knowledge to question its authenticity. All I knew about Fender's products at the time were that Squiers were the lower end models and the one to have was the MIA, which is what I bought. I paid $400, which was about the market rate but I had not really investigated that beforehand.

Years passed and for some time I got away from guitars in general or played only acoustic. A few years ago, I got back into playing electrics again, and had occasion to take the guitar in for a scratchy pot to be replaced. I was told by the music store that my MIA Strat was "weird" and was built with Squier components. I had never had the pick guard off, much less the neck, so I had no idea what the correct components were supposed to look like.

Since then, I have gotten educated on the components and clearly, my guitar is not the correct specs for an American Standard. The neck is 21 frets, no overhang, no adjustment or date at the heel. Plain tuners, no "F". Butterfly string tree, no roller one. No micro tilt neck. The body has HSS rout, not swimming pool. Ceramic pickups. Nickel sized pots and originally a really cheap rectangular metal and plastic 5-way switch. Plated metal string saddles, no stamped saddles. Cheap cast trem block.

I understand all of these are Squier or MIM components. Yet my neck has what I believe to be an original Fender Stratocaster, Made in USA sticker and E9 serial number, as seen in the photo below. There is no indication this neck has ever been refinished and the original decal is under the finish. I am certain this decal was applied by Fender at the factory.

I also think the neck and pocket markings are consistent with USA construction.

I have recently done a lot of internet research on guitars of this period and have found others who have run into the same specs as my guitar, and also with the Made in USA decal and serial number. You can read another thread about one of them here:

http://www.strat-talk.com/forum/stratoc ... strat.html

Here is a listing for one of these guitars that is currently being offered.
http://www.bluegrassconnection.ca/Blueg ... aster.html

I mention these other guitars so it is clear I am not just one guy who got a Squier with a professionally applied counterfeit Made in USA decal and serial number.

I have read that in this time period Fender made lower spec guitars that were sold as MIA Strats for export, presumably to markets where the correct component specs would not necessarily be known and where due to few sales, then would be limited feedback or complaints.

Can anyone with specific knowledge of Fender's products from this period provide any good information about why Fender would have sold a lower spec guitar under the Fender Stratocaster name?

I am happy to take my guitar to a nearby luthier of Fender's recommendation for confirmation of the originality of my decal and serial number.

Comments and questions welcomed. Thanks.

Michael

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This is how it looks today, with Rose Mariposa pups, MIM bridge with GFS trem block and Fender saddles, new full size CTS pots and Fender 5-way. Sounds and plays super!


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:10 pm
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That's not a USA neck, if it was it would have 22 frets and a walnut truss rod plug. They also had 2 roller type string trees on them at that time.

I think they only had a few different models at that time, not like now, and none of them would of had the plastic truss rod plug.

The bodies at that time would of had a swimming pool route and a 2 point trem.


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:19 pm
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I used to hang out in Veneman's Music in Springfield Virginia.

IMHO, the claim that Fender made and sold "fake" American Standard Strats is pure BS. People have been faking guitars for decades. Only recently have people become more concerned about it. I doubt even today a chain music store (say, GC) would bother to disassemble a guitar brought in for sale or trade unless it was a potential high ticket item. It appears to me that Veneman's sold you a fake USA Strat. Sorry.

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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:24 pm
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I agree, that neck aint USA either. I doubt that Fender had anything to do w/it. It would just be too scandalous for them to do something like that.


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:38 pm
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Jason,

I mentioned in my posting that I was aware that my neck has 21 frets and that the string tree was wrong for the AmStd. I forgot to also mention that the truss rod plug is plastic and not walnut, so I am glad you brought that up.

I know that the neck and other components are not correct for an American Standard, I think I have made that clear and I don't dispute that whatsoever.

The point I am trying to raise is why did Fender put a Fender Stratocaster MIA decal and serial number on it. I am convinced my guitar is original including the decal and serial number. So were the other two guitars depicted in the Strat-Talk thread I linked to and the For Sale posting.

The main issue I am trying to raise is that these independent examples support the fact that Fender made these guitars and sold them as Fender Strats in the US market, even though they were built with components that are Squier or MIM specification.

I am trying to find out why Fender would have done that, and what was the intended market for these guitars. Why did they think the lower spec components would not be eventually discovered, and the purchasers not disappointed? If they were intended for an unsophisticated foreign market, how did they end up being sold in the USA? Did Fender do this intentionally for cash-flow reasons? Was a deal struck with some distributors like Veneman's where I got my guitar to supply some low spec models that were assembled in the USA and so legitimately could be sold at a lower price point with the MIA sticker?

These are the kind of questions I am trying to answer on this forum.

Michael


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:47 pm
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Bluesky636

My guitar and the other 2 that are shown in the links provided all have similar features and close serial numbers, but they are all in different parts of the country. Doesn't it seem unlikely that this is a coincidence? Do you think a counterfeit decal manufacturer was doing advancing serial numbers on the fake decals? That seems unlikely to me.

If you read joeybsyc's thread on Strat Talk, you will see he is a super knowledgable guy with a giant collection of Strats, and far more informed than me. The guitar he was posting about did not appear to be a fake to him.

I am happy to have a Fender specialist or rep look at my guitar and confirm if the decal and serial number are fake or not.


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:50 pm
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I'm actually thinking the neck is genuine. I cannot see why you would have a guitar that was faked in the 90's. Bearing in mind- something like faking a decal would not be an easy thing to do back then. As for the plastic plug- The Fender USA Prodigy had the same plug made in Mexico, assembled in USA:

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I am not going to believe this neck was made in America though. Neither the body for that matter. It looks to me, a very early (and rare) MIM made, assembled in USA start. Your guitar has the famous 'mouse ears' in the neck cavity. Also- your start correct me if I am wrong- Alpine White? certainly not Vintage nor Olympic... :?: Says to me MIM :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:02 pm
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Michael, you basically asked the questions I would ask, which leads me to think that it would just be too risky for Fender to try & pull a stunt like that, because they would be found out & their reputation would just bottom out. It's possible that there was a large scale fraud perpetrated by somebody else which would account for the similar serial #s. Today there are factories in China that make any USA brand guitar you want. I don't know how prevalent they were back then.


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:18 pm
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mojjett,

Look at one small detail, which is the hand-written date in the neck pocket. Note it is in Month/Day/Year format. The USA is about the only place that format is used, the rest of the world uses Day/Month/Year. Do you think an offshore counterfeit operation of the scale you are proposing would know that small detail and get it right? Why would a counterfeiter go to all the trouble with the neck and pocket markings? That is not going to be seen until long after the point of sale.

Blertles

I thought my guitar was Olympic white, but if it is not, then I am learning that today.

Tell me more about the "mouse ears". I have not run into that term during my research.

You raise a good point about the assembly being in the USA, even if "offshore" components are used. That may be the way Fender could do this legally. "Made in USA" may only have to have some percentage of USA components, or back then, maybe even zero percengtage as long as the actual bolting together occured in the USA.

Thanks for showing the Prodigy, I did not even know about that model until today!


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:30 pm
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Hmm. that is interesting. The US is the only country that I know of that writes the date like that. I still think Fender would be unwise to try & pull that off. It does beg the question though. :?:


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:08 am
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Ok wait, but on the neck the date is written day, month, year as it's customarily written internationally!


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:14 am
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It's also the case w/that black Strat. The neck is dated one way & the body the other way. The plot thickens.


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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:18 am
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Hi Michael7,

1) You said that you bought it used. 2) You can see where there used to be the rectangular shaped sticker on the neck heel commonly found on Strats, it was removed. 3) The US might be the only place to use the Month-date-year format, but no one normally uses a / between the month, date and year when written out like that. It could be "10/12/1991", but never "Oct/12/1991". 4) The black plug is too pointy even for a MIM. 5) Nothing about the guitar indicates MIA, except the decal, which could easily be applied to any guitar. The "Made In USA" part doesn't even look correct to me.

When you add it all up, I believe that you bought a Fake, and I don't believe that Fender made it this way. Based on what I see, I wouldn't buy it myself.

Do you have a picture showing the twelfth fret dot spacing?

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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:17 am
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I read the date as 19 11 90 (19th Nov 1990) That is the way we write it in the UK

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Post subject: Re: Did Fender build fake MIA Strats in 1989-90?
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:17 am
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Hey Michael,

I just want to throw this in the equation. This is a 1990 Strat Ultra Headstock (mine) :

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Here is a 1993 Plus:

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Yours:
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Note the inconsistencies with the font style on 'STRATOCASTER'. I have read your OP and also looked into the links also. I fully believe that this is a genuine strat. If I am correct in this- this guitar may be the precursor to the MIM standard line. Before they began, they were the 'Squier Series' strats when they were made & labeled "MADE IN MEXICO". I believe your guitar pre-dates the Ensenada plant where the 'MIM' factory resides today- so it is MIA. As for the neck- this is a lower cost guitar so there is no 'Biflex truss rod' as you will see the trussrod button at the heel of the neck is different, also you should have an absence of a 'Micro-tilt' hole on your neck-plate. Also to note, there should be no "Fender" on your neckplate either. Note:

My Ultra-
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your strat:

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One thing has me stumped- the rout pattern on your guitar. It should be a 'swim pool' if this guitar body dates after '89. It wouldnt If before- maybe not. So going from your serial number and what Ive just said- this guitar body was MIA.

So Im thinking this particular model was very short lived. There are other examples of your start out there, however- do you believe that this is an "American Standard"? I wouldnt think so- but just a lower priced model that set the trend for a good quality strat at a lower cost.

Refer to this link- I think this pretty much backs my conclusion.

http://planetbotch.blogspot.co.uk/2012/ ... sters.html

As for the 'Mouse Ears'- this is just a rout pattern that is a common sight on stratocasters.. note the two notches in this neck pocket:

Image

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