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Post subject: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:11 pm
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Is there a trade-off for the noise cancellation a RW/RP middle pickup gives for positions 2 and 4? Since not all SSS configurations have a RW/RP middle pup I'm thinking there must be a downside or perhaps is it simply that some people want the characteristic noise of a single coil?

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BM

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:20 pm
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I believe you will find slightly lower output in positions 2 and 4 with a RW/RP set when compared to the same set that is traditionally wound. The traditional wound set in my experience gives slightly more of that Strat "quack" in positions 2 and 4.


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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 am
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Sometimes it's just vintage mania!
Guitarists are just somewhat .... conservative.

If a stratocaster player became famous in the 60s, it must have been the old guitar and there's no way on this planet to achieve a similar tone without perfectly copying that outdated model (talk re-issues!).

Everything old is better than perfectly working modern machines in the guitarist's world.

I guess, if guitars would have been steam driven those times, they still would be today and every vintage fan would be standing on stage with a big water container on his back and a roadie providing the fire underneath! :wink:

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:03 am
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A reverse wound middle does make those mixes a tiny bit less 'quacky', so it's up to individuals to see if that makes enough of a difference to them.

I have both setups on Strats - must say that the one without the reverse wound mid pickup is always the one I go to for those inbetween sounds, and the point that started happening was exactly when I dropped a normal wind Duncan Alnico Pro II in there instead of the RW APII which came out by mistake. :lol:

The noise cancelling properties don't really bother me, as I don't use the mix positions enough to really benefit from them, and if the guitar is going to hum in every other position, I'd rather do something about the overall noise level rather than have a mix of noisy and quiet selections.

If I played the mix positions all of the time, though, I'd definitely go for a RW pickup - the lack of noise more than makes up for the tiny lack of tone.


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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:43 am
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it's all about what you like or have avalible. my favorite strat has 57/62's in it and the set i have is older and not rw/rp. it's really not noisy at all. it's also shielded properly which helps more than anything. unless you have a noisless set of pups you are always going to get some hum because that's what electricity does. appliances, lights and other things using power in your house can cause a bunch of crazy noises through single coils. it's just the nature of the beast. embrace it. as far as the sound of the pups i like both types but again my fave is the 57/62 set.


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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:33 am
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Thanks for the replies. As always, very much appreciated.

If I'm understanding the collective feedback correctly, then the trade off for noise cancellation is a slightly reduced output and tiny loss of "quack" for the in between positions.

Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:32 am
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I know I bought a brand new Strat in 1975 and it had a 3-way switch. I thought I was so clever and cool when I figured out how to put the switch in between 1&2 and 2&3 to get those out-of-phase tones. I played through a Super Beatle Amp and the guys in the band were like, That sounds so sweet! But I do know that the 5-way switch was introduced sometime in mid-to-late 1977. That was a novel idea! Kind of took that, I know how to do a special trick out of what Strat players were doing! But made sense that Fender had a 5-way!

Regarding rw/rp. I always wondered how the Strat could keep the out-of-phase tone when the middle pickup was rw/rp. Seems like that would defeat the whole way it worked. But when I tried them I really did not notice much of a difference compared to the vintage way of doing it.

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:36 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
I really did not notice much of a difference compared to the vintage way of doing it.


+1

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:30 pm
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Hi Xhefri. I'm still on the early chapters of "Electronics for Dummies" so I'm not too clear about the In/Out Phases nor how this ties in with Series/Parallel wiring on the pickups. Hopefully you can help me sort things out.

When you got those "out-of-phase" tones with the 3-way switch, what pickups were being engaged and were they "in series" or "in parallel"? Are positions 2 and 4 of the modern 5-way switch comparable to those "out-of-phase" sounds?

Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:53 pm
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Bluer Monkey wrote:
Hi Xhefri. I'm still on the early chapters of "Electronics for Dummies" so I'm not too clear about the In/Out Phases nor how this ties in with Series/Parallel wiring on the pickups. Hopefully you can help me sort things out.

When you got those "out-of-phase" tones with the 3-way switch, what pickups were being engaged and were they "in series" or "in parallel"? Are positions 2 and 4 of the modern 5-way switch comparable to those "out-of-phase" sounds?

Cheers!
BM

To answer your questions, Yes. 8) To be honest, there are other guys on the Forum sharper than me when it comes to electronics, but from what I understand the 5-way virtually did the same thing that the 3-way did with the switch stuck between pickup settings. All's that happens, as an example, is the neck and middle pickups would be engaged at the same time when you would trick the 3-way into a 1/2 way point between settings 2&3, which is the same thing a 5-way does when set on position #4. And when they operate that way they are all parallel, not in series. Series mean the current runs from one into the other then out. Parallel means they are both on at the same time but acting a individual circuits (side by side, or parallel, so to speak). I am not sure I am explaining this very well! :?

I have wired Strat and Tele pickups so they will be in series and it creates a fat sound, kind-of-like a humbucker. I use this trick on my custom JD Tele wiring. It will have all the 3 standard Tele positions plus 2 extra: in-series and in-parallel. This is done using a 5-way Super Switch.

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:36 pm
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Bluer Monkey wrote:
If I'm understanding the collective feedback correctly, then the trade off for noise cancellation is a slightly reduced output and tiny loss of "quack" for the in between positions.


Correct.

And the slightly diminished gain may be compensated for by gently nudging your amp's volume control in a clockwise direction.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:18 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
... And the slightly diminished gain may be compensated for by gently nudging your amp's volume control in a clockwise direction. Arjay
Or even a slight clockwise turn of the guitar volume. :wink:

None of my Strats have a RW/RP middle pickup so I'm curious to try one that does. Are there any models currently in production that fit the bill?

Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP: Is there a trade-off?
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:03 am
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Considering I never the middle pickup alone, I don't really notice. Since mine are noiseless, that doesn't matter much either to me to use the 2nd or 4th to eliminate hum.

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