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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:27 pm
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Hi All Thanks for all the input. Sorry if I’ve been a bit vague but I need to clear up one or two misunderstandings, the guitar is Fiesta red See these photos http://s1149.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 20Re-Issue and has had gold hardware fitted by the previous owner. He is a member of a Shadows Tribute band (Don’t ask me which one there are 1000’s) so he did base the gold hardware on a Hank Marvin Stratocaster in fact he knows, knew all the members of the shads living or sadly deceased or so he said, someone who knows him said to me “Hi Mike, Is it **********? I am thinking he might have re-sprayed the guitar since he is known for doing that quite well. I do not think he uses nitro finish though as I think I remember him telling me he uses two pack finishes. The main thing is, if you accept the item for what it is, a reasonably well refinished instrument with the metal parts re-plated or replaced then I think it is probably OK, unless you think otherwise. The only issue I think you might have is with the pickups. You could discuss that with him if he had you believe something that has turned out otherwise.” The Pick-ups are Seymour Duncan’s and make the guitar sound like a Hofner Galaxy which is not the sound my customers want, so they with have to change. If I keep the Strat I have some Custom Shop Texas Specials which I think will get fitted. If the guitar has been re-finished will it make a big difference to the value? I have my family to think of in the future!
Mike


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:49 am
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Well now, Tube Dude. You got a bit cross with the guys earlier over the tone of their replies, but in fact nothing about this thread is what we were given to understand, is it? You've kinda had us working in the dark. Hm.

Beginning at the end:
The Tube Dude wrote:
If the guitar has been re-finished will it make a big difference to the value?

C'mon, seriously? It's a Strat that has definitely had its pickups and all its hardware changed, there is no serial number, probably its body has been resprayed and maybe the decal sanded off and replaced with a counterfeit one, and we don't even know which factory it came from. Yes. That is going to affect its value.
The Tube Dude wrote:
I have my family to think of in the future!

Even if this guitar was what it pretended to be it is not going to support your family into the future, unless they are mice. At best, it's worth three figures, not four.

To directly answer your question, a respray always drops the value of a guitar, even if everything else is kosher. The second a guitar is not bone-stock anymore the price drops, no matter what. (Unless your name is Dave Gilmour or Eddie Van Halen, that is. But it isn't.)

And there's plenty more here that doesn't add up. The guy's in a Hank Marvin tribute band so he bought a '50s model Strat and resprayed it red? Why didn't he just buy a Fiesta Red guitar in the first place? Also, I'm in the UK and if you can tell me where to buy Fiesta in a two-pack urethane I'd be most interested. Fender order that paint specially in a poly formulation for their Mexican and Japanese '57s: I know of nowhere you can buy it off the shelf.

So what do we have left?

The body has a 1950s cavity pattern including the worm route, so it's very likely a '50s Reissue model - but we don't know which. If it was from the Mexican or Japanese plants there would be a serial number and country of origin on the neck - but they might have been removed and a fake decal put on. So. Assuming - assuming - the neck came with the body we can still determine which it is by the lacquer. I told you on the previous page how to test for nitro and if this is a US Vintage Reissue then that's what will be on there. Do the test on a little spot on the heel where it won't show and that will tell you whether it's an AVRI neck or no.

If it turns out to be urethane then it's a Mexican Classic '50s or Japanese ST57. As several of us have already said, the CIJ guitars have the pointy "e" in the logo, so yours could be that. I don't know about that detail on the MIM Classic '50s; someone else must say.

However. I'd assumed it was just the lighting in the photos, but since now we don't know what to believe about this guitar I'm not so sure: the logo on yours looks silver, not gold. If it indeed is silver then even that part of the thing is wrong. In that case to all intents and purposes it is a bogus guitar from the ground up and worth less than the price of the parts.

Unless there's still more you haven't told us, that is everything there is to be said about this instrument.

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:21 am
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^^ I certainly cannot add anything to Ceri's " Let's clear the cobwebs ". other than.

Drop in those Texas Specials and call it a day. if the guitar plays well, fits like a glove and I suspect once you have the TS's in, it will be an entirely different tune.
After that it's just what it appears to be Now. A parts-o- caster.
Nothing wrong with that if it is well assembled, just not a retirement fund...

Speaking of that, there are requirements for a guitar to be an investment.
it's probably somewhere around 1%-2% of the guitars out there.
Limited edition Custom Shops are the easiest to acquire but not inexpensive.
these are yet to be determined as to wether or not which of these will hold their value or not...
Vintage 50's and 60's are the one's.....Of those, they must be original, as they left Fender way back when. Of those, we are looking at $15,000 on up depending on year and condition.
So unless you bought and payed 5 figures for the real McCoy's, you are not dealing with anything as an investment vehicle. ( Where guitars are concerned, this is volatile and highly speculative in nature. )
You would be much better off taking $5,000 and leaving it in an Index 500 fund for the next Ten or so years..

This theme of " I'm buying a guitar as an investment " is a foolish pursuit, unless one has deep pockets and a thorough knowledge of the subject.
99% of the time this an exercise in " separating a fool from his money "
Do not take this as an insult or as personally aimed at you but this is just the reality...

Of the guitars I have purchased in the past that are worth more than I paid and at the very least sold at par...They are few and consisted of being at the right place at the right time..
Hence why I never buy a guitar with return value as a factor. It is inconsequential to me as I'm looking at an instrument first and foremost. If it doesn't pass that test than I pass ...

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:31 pm
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What in on earth have I said to make you all turn on me like a pack of ravening dogs? :?
Sorry I don’t know why anyone should think I am trying to mislead. :oops: I just want some advice as to whether or not I have been stitched up when I bought this guitar. I have been perfectly frank and open about my intentions.
1. I bought the guitar last year as advertised as 57 vintage Re-issue Stratocaster produced about 1999.
2. I paid £950.00 for it as a fiesta red with gold hardware when other colours and years seem to be about £1500.00 although they had a tweed case, accessories and candy. I had been looking for 3 year to find one in fiesta red the current models are all candy apple
3. The decal is gold.
4. I did not buy as an investment, I just joked that I hoped in the future my family might get the £950.00 back.
5. I just want to know if it is a real U.S.A. Stratocaster.
6. If it has been re-finished the replaced neck decal would suggest the neck also has been refinished so the nitro verses poly test would be of no help would it?
7. If it has been refinished are you saying it was not worth £950 and the value will continue to fall?
8. If you have looked at the photos you can see the serial number it’s stamped into the neck plate.

I am very sorry if I have offended anyone on this forum that was never my intention.
After all your first reassuring comments saying “Its great” “I’d love to own it” the decal is “a storm in a teapot” and “Just get on and play it” I had intended to give the seller and the shop he bought it from, the benefit of doubt, and keep the guitar and just change the pickups to some real fenders, but overnight something has made you all decide to totally trash it? And now I’m thinking to send it back and have my money, let him sell it to some other mug which I’m sure he will try!
Just to confirm my status as a musician, till my health resently started to fail I was 3+ gigs a week player with Fender, Gibson and Rikenbacker electric or acoustic guitars to suit who I was working with. I also worked solo acoustic guitar and vocals playing a west coast u.s.a country rock style. It was only pubs, bars and clubs but its playing. However just because I was earning there no reason to blow it all on a custom shop strat when a U.S.A. is all I need. As long as I can be sure some smart kid at the front won’t waste my time when setting up telling everyone I’m playing a fake.
Bye 4 now


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:06 pm
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Ok from what you have said.. It seems you have an AVRI however, the logo which causes you confusion, I'm going to assume its either a genuine one which is a rarity, or been re-applied.

The fiesta refinish (not avail on avri) and gold hardware refit I can understand given this was used in a tribute band, however I don't understand why anyone would want to change out a logo just for kicks, so I'm assuming that this logo is a genuine logo. Albeit a rarity to see on such model. Perhaps there was a shortage.

Nevertheless, at the end of the day -it is what it is. Nice guitar btw. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:15 pm
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For the record have a look at this ebay item it’s a fiesta red 57 re-issue item number 130847940133 check out the spaghetti logo and also it confirmes at one time this colour model was available, looking at this one there is no doubt in my mind it is a genuine U.S.A. Strat.
It says
This is a Fiesta Red 1989 USA Fender Vintage series '57 Re-issue Stratocaster
And Serial number V054478. which is lower and one would think before, mine being V079013
Or here is another 281047438397 again check out the spaghetti logo
Or another on ebay
Image
All of these seem to show a much higher quality application of the decal which further confirms the suspicion my decal has been replaced for what ever reason. :? :lol:


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:36 am
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That of my Strat 50s Classic 2003url=htt[p://fotoforum.fr]Image[/url]
Image

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:13 am
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Most of the points have already been addressed. Which leaves these:


The Tube Dude wrote:
4. I did not buy as an investment, I just joked that I hoped in the future my family might get the £950.00 back.

And I joked back at you about it. It works both ways.


The Tube Dude wrote:
6. If it has been re-finished the replaced neck decal would suggest the neck also has been refinished so the nitro verses poly test would be of no help would it?

Not correct. Refinishing a whole neck is a heck of a lot of effort and nobody does it just to replace a decal. If the decal has been changed the front of the headstock is very likely to be the only place new lacquer has been sprayed. The high probability is that the rest of the neck has its original lacquer. That's why it will be a test for whether it is a US Vintage Series neck or not - which is the point of this entire thread.


The Tube Dude wrote:
8. If you have looked at the photos you can see the serial number it’s stamped into the neck plate.

You told us all the hardware had been changed. Therefore that serial number does not belong to this guitar.

Either the real serial number was on the original neck plate and is now gone. Or it was on a decal on the neck and has been deliberately removed. On the information you've given, those are the only possibilities.


The Tube Dude wrote:
For the record have a look at this ebay item it’s a fiesta red 57 re-issue ... and also it confirmes at one time this colour model was available, looking at this one there is no doubt in my mind it is a genuine U.S.A. Strat. This is a Fiesta Red 1989 USA Fender Vintage series '57 Re-issue Stratocaster... etc - see above.

Exactly. Which is why it seems extremely odd that someone who wanted a Fiesta Red '57 Strat would buy one in the wrong colour and refinish it instead of just buying the right one. Fiesta Red goes in and out of different sections of the catalog, but it's always available in one product line or another.

And for that matter, a Fiesta Red ST57 with gold hardware has not been out of the Japanese catalog for decades and is easy to get in London. So it makes no sense to buy the wrong spec AVRI for the purpose of expensively rebuilding it when the guy could have just bought the right guitar in the first place.

Something doesn't add up. However:
The Tube Dude wrote:
a pack of ravening dogs

Uh-hu.

Guys, we tried. Enough time wasted on this. Movin' on...

- C

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:32 am
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TD ...There is no offense perceived or vice versa, but we are trying to figure out what you have and the specs have changed from the beginning ....

OK so the family heirloom was a :wink: so unless you use the emo's then we cannot differ that it is tongue in cheek and thereby it's taken at face value. :?

Back to the subject at hand ..... You say you paid 950 pounds which to US is about $1,500 with the exchange rate ( give or take ).

I have a few questions ....
Are there other photo's to be seen ? the batch on that photobucket link are just too fuzzy to be of much use. They have to be sharp and in focus with no reflections or glare, other wise it is next to impossible to view them zoomed in and see fine details.

Is the guitar currently as you bought it or has it been worked on since ?
After looking over the wiring, I'm pretty sure the entire electronics were rewired, the clue is the brown stains on the solder which indicate overheating when soldering. The spliced wires and of course the pups..
This wouldn't be from Fender, but from someone rewiring.
Without clear in focus photo's it's impossible to tell what level of refinishing was done. So that is an unknown.

In January 2010 issue # 101 of guitar buyer magazine ( http://www.guitarbuyermag.com ) did a review of the Hank Marvin 50th Anniversary Strat and the Fender Custom Shop's recreation.
It's a good look into the HM replica.

As a reworked reissue I would say that it is not worth what you paid, I would offer $700 tops because it has been extensively modified....
It's up to you to decide what to do with it but since you have to switch pups, it shouldn't have been priced at normal values. As soon as a guitar is reworked, the value / ask price drops significantly. ( or it should )

However if everything is up to pro standards once reworked ( playing wise ) you may as well keep it since it will be very difficult to regain your initial expenses.
BTW the Hank Marvin by the Custom Shop had specially wound pups by Abigail Ybarra.
This would be the 1st inquiry.... What is available today from Fender that could come close to those, unless those are still available thru the Custom Shop .....

I think at this point it's a buy you will have to either keep or take a big additional loss upon resale. Not worth it since the body and neck are good ...

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:06 am
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Hi all,
Would someone please tell me if they know is this site a legitimate Fender site? and is the writer correct in what he say’s about Fender Strats? http://www.guitarhq.com/fender.html
bye for now


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:26 pm
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The Tube Dude wrote:
Hi all,
Would someone please tell me if they know is this site a legitimate Fender site? and is the writer correct in what he say’s about Fender Strats? http://www.guitarhq.com/fender.html
bye for now


Yes, that site is very legit.

I've got 20 years of experience with the (American Vintage Reissues) and your guitar is not original at all, it's a parts guitar period.

My advice Tube Dude, send it back and get your money back as soon as possible, then you can take that 950 and put a little extra with it and get you one that you are 100 % sure is all original.

I don't think you will ever be happy with it if you keep it, there's just to much wrong with it, my opinion, it's a complete fake.


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