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Post subject: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:45 pm
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I am looking for a definitive answer to the question of whether modern say 1999 made Vintage 57 re-issue Stratocasters have a decal like the original 1957 models with points on the lowercase e’s or are they rounded as I have seen on many. The vintage Fender page on this site show’s:-
Image

Which seems to be saying that my Stratocaster vintage 57 Re-issue has a bogus decal that has been applied as a repair?
I am sure the subject of these incorrect or not decals has arisen before but can I have some confirmation from Fender? Could I get it repaired with the correct one by a fender agent?
Here is a photo of my headstock the serial number seems legit, but there is this nagging doubt mainly because the MIM are so good these days that this is not a MIA model.

Image

I apologize if this matter has been cover before but I can’t find a satisfactory explination.


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:36 pm
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What do you think?

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:52 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
What do you think?


What do I think?

I think it's a tempest in a teapot.

A "real" vintage headstock decal would also have several patent numbers beneath the "WITH SYNCHRONIZED TREMOLO" text as well. The re-issues -- whether from Corona, Fuji-Gen, or Ensenada -- lack this detail. BFD!

It's still a Fender Strat regardless of rounded points on the "E".

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:15 am
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The point of this is what exactly ... :?: :? That a reissue is not an exact clone ... :?:
Fonts change over the years, but I would expect a reissue to not be an exact carbon copy for obvious reasons. It is a reissue and not an actual 57...... The answer is there if you think just a bit. :idea: :arrow:

Is anyone buying these guitars to actually create some music ... :?:
Or are we now at a point where the sole purpose to buy a reissue is to find the blemishes from the original vintage.... :wink:

Here is a bit of facts about old 1950's guitars.. You will not find two that are exactly alike, which is one of the reasons the originals are so coveted ... Something to do with hand tools, not quite surgically precise shop power tools and the most important factor ... human fallibility. Oops ..

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:47 am
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What I am saying is that the Fender vintage site seems to be saying that to prevent confusion that re-issues have a font with no points, making them recognisably different from real 57 Stratocasters so that inexperienced buyers like me. Will not be paying $1500 for a $250 Mexican with some $10 decals varnished on! With a Guitar that is copied so much how can I tell if it’s a real U.S.A. made re-issue Please help me without the sarcasm. If no one is willing to offer help on what I though was a friendly message board I wont bother to keep posting!


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:31 am
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The Tube Dude wrote:
With a Guitar that is copied so much how can I tell if it’s a real U.S.A. made re-issue Please help me without the sarcasm. If no one is willing to offer help on what I though was a friendly message board I wont bother to keep posting!

Relax bro, they're only teasing! It's possible they missed your point a little too, so to paraphrase:

      1. you bought what you were told was a 1999 Fender USA '57 reissue;
      2. the Fender website seems to be saying your guitar, as a reissue, should have rounded e's, but in fact it has pointed ones, just like the original 57;
      3. your concern is that someone has switched the logo, so maybe it isn't a US guitar at all, but perhaps a MIM; and
      4. you're wondering if you could get it switched back to a correct-for-1999-reissue but not identical to an original 57, rounded 'e' logo.

Is that right?

So, is it a US guitar? I can't give you a definitive answer I'm afraid, but there might be a clue to the answer in your own question: the Fender vintage page you refer to says "current" reissue logos having rounded points, versus the original having a pointed tip on the 'e'. Your guitar isn't a "current" reissue - it's from 1999. As far as I know, the MIM reissues from that time have the rounded points, but I have never seen a US or CIJ one - it is entirely possible they were using "vintage correct" logos in 1999 - in which case, yours would be original.

If they were not (whether that is at all, or even occasionally either by accident or design), then yours would appear to be a replacement - potentially on a US guitar, potentially on a MIM, maybe on something else entirely.

It might be that someone wanted to do that to make it appear more "vintage correct"?

Let's suppose instead that someone did it to try to 'fake' a US guitar, by changing the logo on a MIM. Surely they would only have done that if (i) the 1999 US reissue they were trying to copy had a pointed logo, whereas the MIM didn't (otherwise, why bother, as the logo would be the same) or (ii) they didn't know it wasn't different or (iii) it's not even a Fender - perhaps a Squier. It only really makes sense if it isn't even a Fender guitar.

So, what do you need to do to check? Well, the headstock logo alone is not the only way to work out where a guitar was made. You might like to take a look inside the neck pocket and at the neck heel, for example. Post some pictures, and I'm sure you'll get some more help.

Finally, if it is indeed a 57 style, non 99 replacement, could you get a Fender agent to swap it back to a 99 style not 57 original logo? Maybe, but to be honest, I really woundn't bother even if you find someone willing to do the job - you could probably find a neck, with the right (wrong) logo, for a similar price.

BTW, welcome to the Lounge!

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Last edited by Nobby1974 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:05 am
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The Tube Dude wrote:
What I am saying is that the Fender vintage site seems to be saying that to prevent confusion that re-issues have a font with no points, making them recognisably different from real 57 Stratocasters so that inexperienced buyers like me. Will not be paying $1500 for a $250 Mexican with some $10 decals varnished on! With a Guitar that is copied so much how can I tell if it’s a real U.S.A. made re-issue Please help me without the sarcasm. If no one is willing to offer help on what I though was a friendly message board I wont bother to keep posting!


OK Tube Dude.....1st Welcome ...... 2nd With a moniker like Tube Dude you are going to receive some Spicoli sarcasm. :wink: :lol: 8)

Now I'm still not sure what you are trying to convey here.
Is this to peg a current value :?:
Is this to find out if indeed your guitar is all original :?:

As far as a $1,500 original 57 Stratocaster :shock: Please let me know where I can find two for that price and I will buy you one for the trouble :wink: ( again a bit of a jest )
Last I checked at Empire guitars, original 62 - 65 vintage strats were selling for upwards of $20,000, mid 50's would be even more if not double depending on condition.

It is very unlikely your guitar is a parts-o-caster and the decal is a replacement. Here is why, it is difficult to pull off a decal switch accurately. If someone is doing a fake reissue then they are going to not be able to sell it for that much so that it's a expense to return issue. It is just not worth it unless you are going to fake a very limited original vintage reissue or an original....
For One the price at under a $1,000 is a dead giveaway and Two at that price the blemishes are quite visible if not shouting out to be seen ... :lol:

Here is what we need to see in order to help you figure this out ...
Pics posted on either Photobucket or other site, then copy and paste them in your post.
Take clear in focus close ups of the head stock front and back, neck front and back, body front and back, need to see where and what is the serial number. The entire guitar front and back. Also take the photo's at an angle so that the flash doesn't glare and the finish is white lighted out.
There is no need to take the guitar apart at this point. Not until some of us have a chance to see the pics. Then we can go from there...

BTW .... Sarcasm is part of being a Noob and it is always present in these Forums regardless of tenure .... So just enjoy it with a grain of salt and dish it back .... :wink: :lol:

Cheers ....

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:18 pm
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Sorry The Tube Dude is a nick name given also as I am one of the few engineers left in GB who actually designed and built Valve amps for the last 35 years, not one of those who thinks putting an ECC83 in the deep freeze for a while makes it sound cruncher by aligning the molecules in the plates. But someone who knows what a long tailed pair is! The questions I am asking are about Vintage 57 Re-issues available anywhere for $1500 not real vintage Strats so don’t be silly! I don’t know what I think, it looks like a great strat, but there is this problem with the decal, I have looked at loads of 57 Re-issues and they all have the new rounded E’s, I have only seen one other with the pointy E and that also was the subject of discussion as to it’s authenticity on this site! Originally one of the pickups stopped working and when the shop took it apart I started to get a bad feeling. I have photos taken when it was taken apart to check for lose wires that’s when I started to get a sick feeling in my gut
Anywho here’s the link let me know.

http://s1149.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 20Re-Issue

Image


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:35 pm
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I really did not see anything to warrant concern that this is not what it is.... That being said, the pups are possibly not original Reissue ( or may just be that the switch was changed ) But that could also be due to whoever did the work obviously cut the wires too short and thus had to splice extensions. :roll:
One thing that often happens with some guitars is that the previous owner sells the guitar But decides that the Vintage pups are to their liking and swap a replacement and keep the originals .
This I think is your scenario, not very honest but ....

Otherwise it would be a reissue I would love to have, bear in mind that Fender makes many of these in batches, Decals are stored in batches not individual staches so it is very possible / probable your particular decal got mixed in.
To me that is just a small unique feature that distinguishes your Reissue from other's .
This is often what I look for when buying a guitar which is part of a series, a small unique difference which sets that guitar apart. from the rest ....

I would not be concerned and just play the damned thing .... 8)

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:28 pm
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My CIJ 57 has pointed tips and it was made in 04 - 05. Hope this helps


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:01 pm
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ray_tard wrote:
My CIJ 57 has pointed tips and it was made in 04 - 05. Hope this helps


+1

Same here, RT.

Another way to distinguish the CIJ/MIJ necks is the location of the string tree. Fuji-Gen has theirs in the right position vis-a-vis a vintage instrument. The MIM Classic Series and most US-built re-issues have the string tree a little further "north", about halfway between the A and the D string tuner posts. Fender's new line of MIA re-issues corrects this oversight though.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:16 am
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Thanks so far, the pickup I’ve found by putting the number in Google are in fact some kind of country Seymour Duncan’s, cost a bucket load more than Custom Shop Texas Specials. But don’t sound like a 57 as I remember mine from when I was 20 it was 14 years old. Cost £99 from Bell music in London somewhere my mum & dad bought it on tick, it got taken by the receivers’ as part of the bands gear when the Mirror Group went udders up along with all my other gear. Still let’s not dwell on the past. One final thing don’t you all think it looks a bit good for a 1999 guitar with the original G&G case and all the accessories gone.
Thanks for the help, Mike


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:00 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
ray_tard wrote:
My CIJ 57 has pointed tips and it was made in 04 - 05. Hope this helps

+1 Same here, RT.

+2 My Japanese '57RI also has the pointy "e".

Hello TubeDude, welcome to the Forum. I fully understand your question and why you ask it. I'm afraid I'm not qualified to comment on the precise details of decals used on the various reissues. However, there are other very simple ways to tell a US '57RI from those made in the Mexican or Japanese factories.

For starters, the electronics on the CIJ models are entirely different. Here's my MIJ '57RI wiring harness:

Image

- and here's yours:

Image

No confusing those. So at any rate we can be sure you don't have a Crafted in Japan '57.

Also. The Japanese and Mexican reissues put the decal under the lacquer whereas the US model puts it on top, like the original '50s guitars. That's a big clue. (And of course why it sometimes gets damaged and replaced.)

Further, the CIJ and MIM guitars are finished in polyester on the body and polyurethane on the neck. (Actually, not sure if the Japanese bodies are polyester or urethane, but it amounts to the same thing for our purposes here.) The US Vintage Reissues are finished in nitrocellulose on body and neck, again like the originals.

In case you don't know and if you are up for it, there is a simple way to tell nitro from poly. Find an inconspicuous part of the finish, such as inside the control cavity. Put a single drop of naphtha on it, wait and see if it dissolves the paint. If it does, it's nitro. If not, it's polyester or urethane. If it does dissolve the paint leave it alone and once the solvent has evaporated you won't be left with too much of a nasty mark - don't think of wiping it off or you'll just make a mess, which you probably don't want even inside the guitar.

If you don't have naphtha (and why would you?) you can use a drop of your better half's nail varnish remover - it's the same thing.

Supposing your guitar has nitro lacquer then it's almost certainly a US Vintage Strat, and therefore they either used the pointy "e" decal at that stage or it's had a decal repair.

Add all of that to what Arjay said and I think you will have a pretty positive ID.

Now then. I bet a lot of folks here would like to hear more about these amp building activities...?

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:39 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
What do you think?


What do I think?

I think it's a tempest in a teapot.

A "real" vintage headstock decal would also have several patent numbers beneath the "WITH SYNCHRONIZED TREMOLO" text as well. The re-issues -- whether from Corona, Fuji-Gen, or Ensenada -- lack this detail. BFD!

It's still a Fender Strat regardless of rounded points on the "E".

Arjay

+1


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Post subject: Re: 57 re-issue Decals
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:56 am
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...Hey, wait a minute, though.

Just looking at the photos again - it's hard to tell, on my screen anyhow, but is the hardware gold?

Within which case, isn't this a Hank Marvin Strat?

If that's right then all bets are off. There have been several different models of the HM Sig from different factories and I have no idea of the exact spec config of any of them. But I know a man who does: Forum user alainlafrance. He's owned some or all of the Hank Strats and would likely be able to tell us if this is one of them. Does it have the worm route, for example?

If it is then I presume it came with Hank's signature on the headstock. So someone has taken that off and put a pirate 1957 decal on. Presumably for their own entertainment rather than for fraud, because I don't think it would help the value of the instrument, in this case.

The two versions of the decal at the top of the thread - I've seen both of those sold as counterfeit decals. (Obviously, I'm not going to say where.)

Anyhow. A new theory to kick around.

Cheers - C

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