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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:28 am
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Rock Star
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4242
That 12th fret harmonic - 12th fret fretted comparison probably comes from times before electronic tuners - it was easier (at least for a beginner) to ear-compare those (same note) than comparing an open string to 12th fret fretted (one octave difference).

On that string change & need for setup discussion: I already replied on another chain that I don't share Drubbing's view that nothing needs to be done when changing strings. Always check the trem plate angle and intonation. And if those aren't as they should be, check also string height & relief.
Same gauge strings may have different tension, humidity (here we have a humid summer, dry central-heated winter season) affects guitars, nut slots wear etc. Best time to check these (& other) is IMHO string change. AND you learn to take care of problems when they occur (if your guitar takes a bump just before a gig, you don't have the time to take it to a good luthier).
(BTW, This approach was described by Drubbing as "anal"...)
But: to each his own style...


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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:12 am
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jmattis wrote:
That 12th fret harmonic - 12th fret fretted comparison probably comes from times before electronic tuners - it was easier (at least for a beginner) to ear-compare those (same note) than comparing an open string to 12th fret fretted (one octave difference).


That's right, I heard that very often before, just didn't think of it. :)
Now that you mention it ....

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My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:21 am
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Rock Star
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Location: Connecticut
Hi Patzw ... And Welcome ..... If you search on this website on the icons at the top of the page, you will find a couple of vid's by Fender Custom Shop craftsmen explaining how to set up your floating bridge.

I would strongly recommend a few things which will make life simple with your guitar.

(1) Buy Paul Balmer's " The Fender Stratocaster Handbook " ( 2nd edition ) It's an in-depth how to for anyone owning a Strat. or a Tele. ( He also wrote a version specific to Tele's ).
Set up, tuning, neck relief is explained but I doubt you need to attend to this. There are comparisons of various Stratocaster models, Squier, Standard, Vintage, Custom Shop..
There's a good description of essential tools for the guitarist to have so that you can easily and quickly adjust your own guitar .... If you wish to see the book prior to Buying it can be found @ Barne's and Noble as well as Online....

(2) Find a good instrument shop with a reputable tech / repair, notice I said Instrument Shop, Not a G.C. but preferably a small guitar shop who has been around for years. You could go to a G.C. but due to the revolving door effect I'm always reluctant to consider Guitar Center as a source for repairs. ( That being said I adjust all my guitars myself and then some :wink: )
I also did not say " Luthier ". If however you are fortunate enough to actually have a real bonafide Luthier near your location, then by all means seek him/her out and ask if they wouldn't mind you hanging out every so often. It is worth the price of admission to be able to watch a craftsmen create a musical instrument from pieces of wood, bone and metal. 8)
On this I do not consider the ability to spin a left or right handed screwdriver as a qualification to be a Luthier... Too many people have been fooled into believing this and actually the title is far to readily applied.... ( Sorry that was a bit long but it must be voiced )

(3) At the moment I would guess that essentially you need to have three critical adjustments.
(a) First is finding the correct string to fret height for you. Your fretboard is radiused from 1st to last fret. your strings relation to each other should match that radius at the bridge . Or in other words your saddles are adjusted up or down to match. ( Radii Gauges found online at Stew Mac and LMI ) Once you have set the string height at the 21 / 22nd fret for both the Treble E and Bass E strings, then adjust the ABGD strings to match the Fretboard Radius.
Adjusting those two E strings is about lowering the strings to where you can fret and not have a fret buzz but a clear note ringing at the 12th fret and up. ( This also according to your own preference ( after eliminating the fret buzz ).
(B) Once your string height is set than you can move the saddles forward or backwards to properly intonate. I really insist on doing this with a digital tuner, they are accurate, inexpensive, easy to use and more reliable than by ear .
(C) But before all this you need to adjust your Trem according to wether it is floating or flush and blocked. You will need to adjust the trem again after setting your string intonation and height.

This all sounds like a lot but once you do these adjustments a couple of times it becomes simple and quick to readjust .

Last but not least and a critical part of this adjustment process is your string nut. Sometimes the string slots are too deep or too shallow and the actual string(s) is resting in a V shaped slot instead of a rounded slot which matches the strings curvature. There are specially made files for filing string slots. The string should be snug but free to move fore and aft without binding. If this is the case with your guitar it will adversely affect intonation. Have this checked by a tech who knows how to do this correctly.... This is not something you can do a trial and error on so learning how to do this will require a bit of education ( the book I mentioned above )
Also Stew Mac has a lot of video's on their site explaining repairs and adjustments ..

Cheers

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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:00 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 851
Location: So far out there, it's unbelievable!
I was at a coffe house a while back when some guy went up "onstage", picked up (someone else's) electric and began to play and sing. From the very first chord, I could tell it was way out of tune and expected him to stop and tune it. But no! He just kept playing and singing for the entire song! His voice wasn't bad but that guitar...yikes! The thing is...

He just didn't care! Or didn't know. Or didn't care to know.

It was painful. We left.

Gridlok :(


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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:17 pm
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Professional Musician
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 am
Posts: 1530
Location: The Frozen Tundra of MN
Retroverbial wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
Personally, I don't bother messing with my set up when changing stings, even if switching gauge. When it's set up right, it's set up, and changing strings isn't going to change intonation or relief, but some guys just have to check all the numbers.


:shock:

Arjay

I guess we've been doing it wrong and wasting our time for 45 plus years. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:44 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 520
Location: Perth, Western Aus.
Minnesotastrats wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
Personally, I don't bother messing with my set up when changing stings, even if switching gauge. When it's set up right, it's set up, and changing strings isn't going to change intonation or relief, but some guys just have to check all the numbers.


:shock:

Arjay

I guess we've been doing it wrong and wasting our time for 45 plus years. :lol:

Do whatever you like. I'm just going to change my strings, retune and carry on practicing.

If something needs doing, I'll fix it. Til then I got better things to do with the limited time I have to play guitar.


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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:13 pm
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:46 am
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Smokin' Frets wrote:
patzw wrote:
I just hope I can figure the intonation part out because I tend to have a lot of trouble finding that harmonic note on the 12th fret. Must be a beginner thing.




The pinch harmonic note over the 12th fret is ALWAYS the same as the unfretted string.
It halves the sinus curve of the oscillating string, resulting in being the same note as with the string unfretted. Just the exact point of the harmonic moves very very slightly along the string over the 12th fret (one doesn't notice, it's sooo minimal, but it is).

If you want to correctly set intonation, you use the FRETTED note on 12th fret. Use the same fretting pressure as when playing in the upper registers.



I'm no professional musician (and not trying to pick a fight at all), but I do know a little bit about physics. If the sine wave is cut in half (ie wavelength) then it has double frequency which would give the same note....but an octave higher. Right?

Being relatively new to guitar myself, I believe I was recently where the original poster is now. I think what he was originally referring to is the "harmonic" achieved by touching the string at 12th fret (without touching string to the fret) and plucking/picking it. A lot of info online recommends this technique for checking tuning/intonation as the 12th fret harmonic should have the very same frequency as the same string fretted at 12th fret. And, it should fall right above the 12th fret as well.

I also know that a video on another big guitar manufacturer's website teaches this technique for adjusting intonation. The bridge is to be adjusted either toward or away from the neck depending on if the harmonic is higher or lower frequency than the fully fretted note. When they're the same freq...intonation is correct. This is the technique I used to adjust my bridge. And, I can attest that when I play that 12 fret harmonic...it's the same note as playing it fretted @ 12 fret....which is an octave higher than the open string.

Forgive me if we're saying the same thing. I was just a little confused when reading the reply. And, I honestly have never heard the term "pinch harmonic" before just now.

I also adjust(ed) the action, tailpiece, pickups myself (after MUCH research, YouTube, and sweating in fear of ruining my SG). Figured I had to learn somehow! :? The only thing I don't mess with is truss rod. Took it in for pro to adjust for me. I bought it off shelf as demo model (great discount!). Played it for few months before I decided to do my own set up on it. SO happy I did! Huge difference. Huge.

For what it's worth — I don't necessarily play with/adjust anything else, other than tuning, after every string change. But, I do periodically check intonation, etc., and plan on when & how to address it when it actually needs it.

Just my 2¢. Thanks for taking the time.

The end.

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- ChicagoDave

A guitar saved my life, now I'm trying to return the favor.


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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:52 pm
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Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:08 am
Posts: 225
The store you bought the guitar from should have had it shipped to themselves so they could have inspected it, made sure everything was OK with it and then do a set-up. I'd look for another store with a better reputation and pay them do to a good setup with the strings you like so you know what it should feel like. Maybe let you watch as they do it. Then it you want to do it yourself in the future as it has to be check occasionally. Get a good electronic tuner for setting intonation. Print out some good instructions And get the proper tools from one of the online places that kits with the straight edge and rulers. It's not hard to do but needs to be done correctly.


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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:24 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:15 pm
Posts: 334
Location: LA South Bay
Quote:
Now there were 2 surprises in the process for me. First of all, according to the specs the MIM Standard Strat is fitted with Fender USA Super Bullets 3250L. I believe these are supposed to have the bullet end instead of a ball end. The strings on my guitar however had a ball end.


I encountered the same thing when I put new strings on my 2012 American Special. the strings installed were not 3250L's as specified in the Specs. Mine was bought at GC, so it is possible a string change was made by them, but they appeared to be factory installed.


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Post subject: Re: First string change
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:44 am
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Chicago-Dave wrote:
Smokin' Frets wrote:



The pinch harmonic note over the 12th fret is ALWAYS the same as the unfretted string.


If you want to correctly set intonation, you use the FRETTED note on 12th fret. Use the same fretting pressure as when playing in the upper registers.



I'm no professional musician (and not trying to pick a fight at all), but I do know a little bit about physics. If the sine wave is cut in half (ie wavelength) then it has double frequency which would give the same note....but an octave higher. Right?


Perfectly right!
Even though I consider my English being pretty good, there's still mistakes sneaking in or my fingers type faster than my brain thinks. :lol:

I had the tuner display in mind, which doesn't care about octaves. An E is an E for example.
Physically you are 100% right, I just didn't phrase it correctly since I was (in my mind) referring to the tuning method rather than to the actual wording of the laws of physics.
I apologize for being sloppy.

As for the word pinch harmonic:
Pinch harmonics are the notes created by picking the string and immediately touch the string with the thumb of your picking hand, which creates a squealing sound. (Gallagher, Eddi Van, Joe Satriani and others are well known for that).
The effect is the same as when playing the harmonic on the 12th fret (pick the string and touch it with your finger shortly).

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Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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