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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:45 pm
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Bobby1 wrote:
Midniterambler wrote:
...Yeah I actually already have a 2007 vintage spec CS Time Machine '56 Relic....and a new AVRI '56 Strat....


I haven't had the chance yet to try one of those new AVRI '56 Strats yet. Could you tell me how it compares to the '56 Time Machine? I'm particularly interested in how the neck profiles compare, and if the factory model has sufficently deep body contours....

In my area, the trick has been to find a dealer who has them in stock. It's on my bucket list to do so.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:40 pm
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Bobby1 wrote:
53magnatone wrote:
Midniterambler wrote:

Yeah I actually already have a 2007 vintage spec CS Time Machine '56 Relic....and a new AVRI '56 Strat....and after reading that the "Brownie" clones are going for $15,000, I suppose those two guitars are the closest I'll get to my own "Brownie".

I don't really care for the Custom Shop's modernisation of the Time Machine line (meaning the flatter fretboard radii, bigger frets, hotter pickups, etc....). All those modern specs are fine for players who want that, but they've turned the supposedly vintage correct Time Machine line into a sort of CS Vintage Hot Rod series. The California factory has their AVRI line and the Vintage Hot Rod line. I dunno why the CS doesn't try two similar series.


Yes .... but the 56 NOS Time Machine's are unmolested by modern preferences, so the option is there, it's just some people desire a little upgrade on their retro. Perfectly fine and Fender doesn't call them as NOS ..

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But I will admit that some of the modern improvements do appeal to me ... 8)


Hi 53magnatone,

It's not the point that FCS wants to bring these guitars up to a standard that today's players supposedly want. The only thing that really bothers me is that they are selling them under the Time Machine name. Initially, the Time Machine series were all about getting the specs as closely as possible to the originals. Calling a guitar with hotter pups, flatter fretboard radius and bigger frets etc. a Time Machine is very confusing. Midniterambler makes a good point here that the factory takes a much more understandable approach in naming these guitars. Imagine you were a youngster that's just developing an interest in the Stratocaster, the current labeling of FCS wouldn't make any sense to you at all.


That is a 56 NOS Time Machine, same as an actual 56 with the same specs. There were no modern upgrades on this other than the workmanship is hands down A+.

As far as a kid with vintage reissue, that is going to be a very small minute percentage , hence why Fender has given the reissues a modern twist. It's only the purists like ( me and others ) who are going to go for a carbon copy reissue, but understandably I had vintage guitars so woud I want my vintage back :?: Yes and NO.
Yes.... For it's market value and NO .... because it was a pain to keep in tune and playing in a respectable state of play ... :|

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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:19 pm
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If memory serves....back in them thar days....sunburst was the stock finish and gold plated hardware was an option. So were the limited color finishes, a hardtail bridge, and a left-handed model. I expect that Brownie, a '56 with a 5-way switch, was modded. A five-way was a child of the 60's, and not found stock on the '50's Strats. See the '58 Strat on Alain's website www.guitarmotel.com for a look back at how I got my start with Fenders.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:18 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
I expect that Brownie, a '56 with a 5-way switch, was modded. A five-way was a child of the 60's, and not found stock on the '50's Strats.


The 5-way selector didn't came into surface until 1977.

Eric Clapton and his contemporaries jammed the 3-way switch in between the 1st and 2nd position, both the bridge and middle pickups could be selected, and similarly, the middle and neck pickups could be selected between the 2nd and 3rd position.

The trick became widespread and CBS introduced the 5-way selector in 1977 which allowed these tonal combinations and provided better switching stability.


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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:06 am
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chromeface wrote:
The 5-way selector didn't came into surface until 1977.

Close....but no cigar. I remember figuring out a way to find that sweet spot years ago. Anyway...the point is that, some how, some way, a 5-five way finds its way into this guitar. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:59 pm
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Bobby1 wrote:
Midniterambler wrote:
...Yeah I actually already have a 2007 vintage spec CS Time Machine '56 Relic....and a new AVRI '56 Strat....


I haven't had the chance yet to try one of those new AVRI '56 Strats yet. Could you tell me how it compares to the '56 Time Machine? I'm particularly interested in how the neck profiles compare, and if the factory model has sufficently deep body contours....



I really like both guitars.....my CS '56 Relic is a 2007 model with vintage specs. In comparison to the new AV model, the neck seems quite a bit thicker and more rounded on the new AV model. I actually didn't know if I would like it in the beginning but I've gotten used to it. It's a real hand full though. My AVRI '57 Strat neck seems very, very thin by comparison. To summarize.....The '56 CS relic has a noticeably thicker, more rounded neck than my 2011 AVRI '57 Strat, and the new AVRI '56 Strat has a thicker, more rounded neck than either of them. As far as the body contours, I'd have to compare them and get back to you on that.

I'm very happy with both guitars but to me, the feel of the neck is quite different on both.


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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:08 pm
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Midniterambler wrote:
I'm very happy with both guitars but to me, the feel of the neck is quite different on both.

They should. The 10/56 neck is a thicker, clubbier [as described by EC regarding Brownie] neck than the neck on the '57 which as been traditionally described as a soft-V. Then there's the neck on David Gilmour's guitars, known as a '57RI, and replicated on the Signature model, which is a shallow C neck, unlike the current 'modern C' which has a fuller shoulder.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:24 pm
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FYI... Eric played a CS '56 Relic for a short period in late 2004/early 2005.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:16 pm
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wouldn't you rather just get a new beautiful '56 and play the bones off it?


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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:00 am
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RootsRockers1987 wrote:
wouldn't you rather just get a new beautiful '56 and play the bones off it?

.......and that would make it a 'Brownie NOS" at quite a savings.

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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:36 am
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This guitar came with three custom shielded '56 single coils.


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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:42 am
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Midniterambler wrote:
Bobby1 wrote:
Midniterambler wrote:
...Yeah I actually already have a 2007 vintage spec CS Time Machine '56 Relic....and a new AVRI '56 Strat....


I haven't had the chance yet to try one of those new AVRI '56 Strats yet. Could you tell me how it compares to the '56 Time Machine? I'm particularly interested in how the neck profiles compare, and if the factory model has sufficently deep body contours....



I really like both guitars.....my CS '56 Relic is a 2007 model with vintage specs. In comparison to the new AV model, the neck seems quite a bit thicker and more rounded on the new AV model. I actually didn't know if I would like it in the beginning but I've gotten used to it. It's a real hand full though. My AVRI '57 Strat neck seems very, very thin by comparison. To summarize.....The '56 CS relic has a noticeably thicker, more rounded neck than my 2011 AVRI '57 Strat, and the new AVRI '56 Strat has a thicker, more rounded neck than either of them. As far as the body contours, I'd have to compare them and get back to you on that.

I'm very happy with both guitars but to me, the feel of the neck is quite different on both.


Thanks very much for the information! Bit sad to learn that the neck of the new '56 factory model is even thicker than the CS '56. Tried quite a few of the CS '56 guitars and always found the necks on those too thick for my taste. Guess I can remove the '56 factory model from the short list then... :(


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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:57 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
Midniterambler wrote:
I'm very happy with both guitars but to me, the feel of the neck is quite different on both.

They should. The 10/56 neck is a thicker, clubbier [as described by EC regarding Brownie] neck than the neck on the '57 which as been traditionally described as a soft-V. Then there's the neck on David Gilmour's guitars, known as a '57RI, and replicated on the Signature model, which is a shallow C neck, unlike the current 'modern C' which has a fuller shoulder.



Yeah you're right but I think maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. I guess bringing the neck on my '57 RI into the conversation made it a bit confusing. I meant that the neck on the AVRI '56 Strat seemed thicker and more rounded than the one on my CS '56 Time Machine Relic Strat. The neck on my '57 RI is much thinner than either of those '56 RI Strats.

Also, the real "Brownie" was actually a June 1956 Strat.....so it makes me wonder about the neck profile. Would it actually be the 10/56 profile?


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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:03 pm
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chromeface wrote:
FYI... Eric played a CS '56 Relic for a short period in late 2004/early 2005.

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Ya know I always wondered about this guitar....whether it was a CS RI or an actual vintage guitar. I assume you know for sure that it is a CS relic? Very interesting.


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Post subject: Re: Clapton's "Brownie"
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:16 am
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Midniterambler wrote:
chromeface wrote:
FYI... Eric played a CS '56 Relic for a short period in late 2004/early 2005.

Image




Ya know I always wondered about this guitar....whether it was a CS RI or an actual vintage guitar. I assume you know for sure that it is a CS relic? Very interesting.


I guess I'm partially responsible for this guitar being labelled as a CS '56 relic as I maintained this in another thread on this forum. :oops: Lately I have seen more footage of this gig, and found that there's no CS logo on the back of the headstock. So, it might just as well be the real deal.


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