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Post subject: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:23 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Location: Perth, Western Aus.
Bought my 80's Left Hand MIJ Strat just beore Xmas. Spent many months playing it pre-purchase, along with any other leftys that came up, and it was the nicest - by a fair margin.

Anyway, a week or so recently there's a noticeable rattle on the bottom E, at 7th fret. Not on picking, but on the vibration decay of the string. Never noticed it before, I'm a beginner of 1 year and been using the first 3 frets and power chords, near the head. Now I'm doing 12 bar stuff the fretboard is getting more use - so it's probably always been there.

It's gone back to the store for an second adjustment, but he can't fix it. The guy is getting a bit frustrated with me, and implying I'm getting fussy. I don't think I am. It's not like I'm imagining it, he can hear it too. A 90s MiM we compared has much lower action, with not a squeak on the E, even when you dig the pick in hard. Nice to play, but it doesn't sound anywhere as good as mine.

When fretting the 1st and 12th, the low E is clearly off the frets in between, it's improved, but still there. He's given me an allen key to experiment raising the saddle, but it doesn't get any better, in fact starts to get worse as I take it higher. But beyond adjusting the rod (which is a pain on these, as you have to take the neck off), and raising the saddle, it seems there's nothing else that can be done. He's no luthier, but then no one else in this town is, and all the tweaking that can be done, has been.

Prices in Oz are high, and for a used $800 guitar, I expected it ain't going to buzz anywhere, AND should play with a low action too, but it seems I'm having to compromise on both. Which I'm unhappy about - it's why I bought a better guitar than my Chinese Tele to begin with.

What to do? Feeling really flat, and just don't feel like playing it - the rattle is driving me nuts and so stopping me progressing. I saved up for this, have 3 kids, I can't afford a rack of guitars, and besides, quality lefties are hard to come by - even buying online. Which I'm not going to punt on, after the variability in playing local guitars.


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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:54 am
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There are always going to be slight imperfections, the trick is picking your battles I guess.

So that said, wonder if it could be a loose fret which would need to be just glued back in.

If the store can't handle this, and it sounds like they can't, I'd find a luthier that knows what they're doing and have them look at it. It should not be an expensive repair.


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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:04 am
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Realistically, sight unseen, whatever the root cause is, would be just a guessing game on any of our parts. Any COMPETENT tech could easily sort out and correct your problem. FWIW, I think all your guitar needs is a pro setup.

Two pages and counting, all reinforcing my above commentary.

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Last edited by Martian on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:05 am
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Hi Drubbing.

I agree with KidBlast about finding a competent luthier however I can appreciate that this may difficult where you live.

The first step would be to a proper and complete setup and the Stratocaster® Setup Guide is a good place to start.

The issue could be, as KidBlast suggests, a loose fret but the fact that the rattle occurs when the sound decays and NOT when the string is plucked has me stumped. One way I can see this happening is if pressure is released while the note is sustained. If you place a capo on the 7th fret and pluck the string, is the rattle still there as the sound decays? Another culprit may be the string itself. Have you tried changing the low E string? Perhaps there's some minute imperfection on the string on/around the 7th fret? Could the rattle be coming from the saddle? When you hear the rattle try putting your finger on the saddle. Does this make any difference? Like I said, this has me somewhat stumped so I'm just spitballing here trying to come up with things you can try while you look into finding a luthier.

Good luck and let us know how things go.

Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:20 am
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Bluer Monkey wrote:
The issue could be, as KidBlast suggests, a loose fret but the fact that the rattle occurs when the sound decays and NOT when the string is plucked has me stumped. One way I can see this happening is if pressure is released while the note is sustained. If you place a capo on the 7th fret and pluck the string, is the rattle still there as the sound decays? Another culprit may be the string itself. Have you tried changing the low E string? Perhaps there's some minute imperfection on the string on/around the 7th fret? Could the rattle be coming from the saddle? When you hear the rattle try putting your finger on the saddle. Does this make any difference?
BM


+1!
Perfect!

One more thing: cushion the springs in the trem cavity on the back of your guitar!
The resonance can sometimes sound like a citar-like rattle of the string.
Try the same note on the A string (which would be the 2nd fret on the A-string). Does that rattle, too? Might indicate said resonance then. If not, it's rather one of the mentioned possible causes above.

Does the rattle occur when played acousticly or can it be heard via amp as well?

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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:27 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Bluer Monkey wrote:
Have you tried changing the low E string? Perhaps there's some minute imperfection on the string on/around the 7th fret?

BM

I like your thinking. Yes, I tried to eliminate all cheap and easy variables; my sucky technique - I did tend to pull at the E before doing finger style and bass note strums, and got understandable buzz on any fret, so stopped doing it. That was clearly my fault tho.

I changed the string. I used a softer pick, I strummed more gently - still there. Raising the saddle (I have a saddle which will adjust each string up and down) too far actually starts to make it worse.

I'm sure it can be fixed, the guitar looks sound, and this is a relatively minor thing that any decent Luth should be able to rectify. Then perhaps the acton can get back down to more playable level. Aside from this recent problem, it sounds great.


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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:27 am
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Smokin' Frets wrote:
Does the rattle occur when played acousticly or can it be heard via amp as well?

Yes, but easier to hear amped.

I'm not sure about your spring rattle theory - the only other one that emits any rattle is the A, again 7th fret. All others are fine anywhere.


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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:41 am
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Drubbing wrote:
Smokin' Frets wrote:
Does the rattle occur when played acousticly or can it be heard via amp as well?

Yes, but easier to hear amped.

I'm not sure about your spring rattle theory - the only other one that emits any rattle is the A, again 7th fret. All others are fine anywhere.


OK, that eliminates the resonance theory.
Check fret #7 on EACH string!

It leaves the following options, IMHO:

- Fret #7 is loose.
- Fret #8 is too high
- Something's loose inside your neck (slightly bumb the neck with muted strings on a piece of carpet to check). Does it rattle? I've known trussrod nuts to become loose.
- Just to eliminate this one (which I don't think is the reason but check it anyways to make shure: Touch each tuner on the headstock when the rattle occurs. Backside and shaft!)
- Saddle problem at the bridge (unlikely, it would rattle on other frets as well)


BUT: if #8 would be too high, it would not only rattle when the note decays. :roll:

Another check: mute ALL strings except the E when played on 7th fret. Does the rattle continue?

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STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:52 am
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Only E rattles, and only when fretted at the 7th, a little at 6 and 8 too.

'A' string a little at 7 too, but I have to dig in.


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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:25 am
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+1 on the fret issue (like Smokin´ said)
Take a little hammer and cover the 7th fret at the low E side with a small piece of wood. Some hits with the hammer and the fret should be settled down.
Try the 6th and 8th frets as well.

All the best,
Robin

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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:39 am
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Robinstrat wrote:
Take a little hammer and cover the 7th fret at the low E side with a small piece of wood. Some hits with the hammer and the fret should be settled down.
Try the 6th and 8th frets as well.

All the best,
Robin


....and don't forget to cushion the back of your neck, when you do that. :wink:

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My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:15 am
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Are the saddles parallel to the bridge plate?

You raise the saddle and it gets worse. That really is eliminating the frets then and the nut. Check to see that the tuner nuts are tight. Don't over tighten them.


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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:57 am
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Drubbing wrote:
... my sucky technique - I did tend to pull at the E before doing finger style and bass note strums, and got understandable buzz on any fret, ... Raising the saddle (I have a saddle which will adjust each string up and down) too far actually starts to make it worse. ...
SNick wrote:
... You raise the saddle and it gets worse. That really is eliminating the frets then and the nut. ...
Good point, SNick. :!:

I continue to be intrigued by the rattling which occurs only when the note decays. What the OP said about his technique and what SNick said about the saddles, tends to support the hypothesis that pressure is being released on the fingered note as it decays. This was the reason for my suggestion of placing a capo on the 7th fret.

As the saddle is raised, the angle of the string becomes great and more pressure is required to finger the note, i.e. more difficult to sustain the pressure. Exaggerating to illustrate the point, imagine the downward finger pressure required if the saddle were 4 inches high.

Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:25 am
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Being that old of a guitar as well as change in climate from the seasons, I'd begin to suspect your guitar needs a fret dress. $100 investment for a fretdress and setup by a trained luthier will make you pain go away. This should include verification of the nut slot, saddle, and neck relief. All combined can cause your problem. Changing to a lighter string gauge or a brand of strings with less tension may cause it too.

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Post subject: Re: Fret rattle driving me nuts
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:45 pm
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I appreciate the replies, but too many suggestions for me to follow up and get right by myself. I'm definitely not going to take a hammer to my frets tho.

Luth's are thin on the ground here, and of the three that get recommended most, have 2 week waiting periods for looking at repairs. That's just to look. Any work booked then goes to the back in the queue. I've only one guitar.

I have found a builder/luth and he's intrigued by my problem, and I'm dropping it off Monday. He says he needs to set it up first, as the rod and saddle have been tinkered with - then he can see if he can source and fix the problem. If he can't, he's only going to charge for the set up. That's fair enough, it's never been set up anyway, so I at least will get the playing action back, as the recent adjustment have thrown it up, but not fixed it.

I'm hoping it's a simple problem for someone who knows what they're doing


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