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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:33 pm
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donnycraven wrote:
Well I would have to check and see what hangs in most Hard Rock Cafes.
What most proffesional musicians and major stars out there are playing.
What the top sellers are, who was the originals.
Who gets copied the most, to be sure.
I will have to get back to you on that after I do some research, OK?


Your opininon is a generalisation. My Japanese Fender Strat is as good as an US Fender I've played, but of course I'm no pro. Even if they were better, in the hands of a pro any guitar will be IMO. The carpenter, not the tools, and all that...

Well documeted that the Japaenses companies that copied LPs and Strat in the 70 and 80 did it better and more consitantly than the original, for a lot less. Why, 30 years later, shouldn't other countries be able to do the same? This isn't new technology.

SRV Played a Tokai (when he needed the cash...), Jeff Healey played a Squier, Gary Clarke Jnr is playing an Epi. Many high profile muso's get their guitar for free anyway, and Fender and Gibson can afford to do it.


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:40 am
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donnycraven wrote:

Well I would have to check and see what hangs in most Hard Rock Cafes.
What most proffesional musicians and major stars out there are playing.
What the top sellers are, who was the originals.
Who gets copied the most, to be sure.
I will have to get back to you on that after I do some research, OK?


Save yourself the trouble of research, Donny.
- With all the vintage mania in the guitarist's world, there's no doubt about the reason, why certain guitars can be found hanging on the walls of Hard Rock Cafes. It's a hommage.

- same reason for #2, plus the fact that companies pile the stars with their products for free to get advertisement!

- to #3: they were the first long before other's followed. With a headstart like that plus the fact that stars those days had nothing more to choose from, it's no wonder that these guitars influenced millions of guitar players.

- copying means nothing but wanting to get a piece of someone else's cake. See # 3

Let's face it: by starting a revolution in building guitars in those days in the 50s, a hype formed around those guitars, especially because stars were seen to play them. Seen with todays eyes, the design was timeless and brilliant but also inferior in some ways. There was simply nothing else to choose from! Given todays modern and advanced guitar building technologies, including the many improvements invented in the meantime, the standard strat wouldn't even survive the first year after introduction nowadays! There are guitars out there which stay in tune better, which have even more versatility, they don't hum, the finish lasts forever, the frets are optimized, tuning systems have improved, electrical circuits have improved, maintenance has decreased to almost zero ..... shall I go on?

The Stratocaster, the Telecaster (Esquire) and the Les Paul were the first. It was a revolutionary design, they formed a hype and worshipping, they were and still are great guitars but all the figures, respectively: questions you asked above, don't say ANYTHING about how good something is! It's a combination of availability, timing, competition at that time, public relations, amount of public appearance (media!) etc etc etc....

There's millions of other examples in the world! Take some modern pop bands: they can't even sing but with studio tricks and media hype you can make them superstars! Millions love them and every serious musician asks himself, WHY???

Sales figures say NOTHING, except that some business man knows exactly what he has to do.

Now, please, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that those guitars are bad! They're not!
All I'm saying is, that the answers to your questions do not(!) prove, that something is THE BEST.

Additionally there's that strange fashion amongst guitarists of preferring to live in the stone age of electric guitars. The magic word is VINTAGE!

Same with cars, same with furniture, same with the upcoming hype for medievil times (while those times were in fact barbarian and life was terrible). Just because millions of people like movies about knights and princesses, go to medievil conventions, dress and live like our ancestors in medievil camps over the weekends doesn't mean at all, that those were the best times mankind experienced!! See what I mean?

The research you suggested would be sense- and meaningless in regards to judging, which guitars are THE BEST.
I say again: they might be the best for you personally but I wouldn't state it as a fact for generality.

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STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:23 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
To me, no.

The only thing of import is the sound coming out of my speakers.

Arjay


yep, +1

cheers :D

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:24 am
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Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel good bout what you got is ok by me
Take care

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:33 am
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donnycraven wrote:
Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel good bout what you got is ok by me
Take care

Right back at ya.


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:03 pm
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I am new to the world of Electric music but have been a guitar player for almost 10 years now. I have had multiple guitars, mandolins, dulcimers, ect (I mainly play Bluegrass) and to me the ONLY thing that matters is how it the instrument fits me. I have play $15,000 mandolins that don't really play much better than my $700 Michael Kelly. I have played guitars that are worth more than most than most of us will earn in the next 4 years. While it was pretty and made me kind of nervous, I wouldn't trade my Taylor or Martin for 10 of the most expensive guitars in the world because they are not the instruments that speak to me.

I understand this forum is about origin and I am getting to that, just trying to make a point.

In 2006 I bought a Martin DX-1 dreadnought. for those of you who are not familiar with the Martin line, this is one of the base models. Solid spruce top, composite back and sides. I has that Martin PUNCH that BG pickers look for without the price tag that will chase you out the door. AMAZING instrument. Would highly recommend to anyone looking for a good acoustic. At the time, these were still made at Martin's plant in Nazareth, PA

Hard times hit home and i ended up having to sell it to help with the bills........... I swore that I would have another as soon as I got the money together.

I bought another DX-1 in late 2010, EXACT same guitar. The only difference was that these models were now made in Mexico. At first, I was slightly hesitant but I knew that it was still a Martin and would still be a good investment. IT WAS. There is absolutely no difference between the DX-1 I had in '06 and the one that I own now.

I have a MIM '03 Fender Strat, Satin Red. I looked at over 100 different Strats before I found this one. I knew as soon as i picked it up, it was the right one for me.

If you really have to have something that is MADE IN AMERICA and that is the cause you are wanting to support, then go to your local Luthier and have one custom made by the people that will truly appreciate your dedication to the hard working man.

To Fender and all your wonderful family, I love your products. This is in no way an attempt to demean or disgrace what you do. You make a wonderful array of products and are/will always be nothing less than ICONIC to every musician across the world.

Whether it is made in America, China, Mexico, Japan, Timbuktu, or your very own workshop that you built in your garage, if the instrument doesn't fit you or speak to you in some way, it's not worth a dime.

Buying an instrument to me is a lot like getting married. You both must have something to bring to the table. Once both sides are joined, there is no limit to the music (literal and emotional) that can be made.


Love the forums here and hope to read many more. Keep on Rockin'!!!!!!!

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:46 pm
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Drubbing wrote:
donnycraven wrote:
Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel good bout what you got is ok by me
Take care

Right back at ya.



:D Im all good here cuz I own the best you can own! ;)

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:48 pm
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I didn't want to go to much into this with my last post, but now that I've had a chance to rip this Korean down and give her a full inspection...not to mention a THOROUGH cleaning...I have an extra $.02 to add here.

Alrighty, I will admit that I was a bit skeptical about a Korean made Strat. The last one I owned was a VERY inexpensive Squier...and even being the Squier lover that I am, that one was just junk. I can't even call the body a good laminate...it was cheap plywood. Anyways, I got this Lite Ash Strat in trade for a Lite Ash Tele I picked up a few months ago. The Tele was a really beautiful instrument to say the least and except for some very light scratches on the back, it really was just about flawless. That said, after using it at a couple of gigs, I just came to the conclusion that I've been right the past 30 years...I just don't like Tele's. Nothing wrong with them, just not my thing (that danged twang just makes my back teeth ache!). Anyways, I gotta say that I just had the Strat completely apart and it really compared with my Japanese E-series instruments...just some of the BEST workmanship I've seen from Fender. Incredibly pristine tooling (yes Virginia, better than Americans), fully shielded cavities, Birdseye maple neck...even has Seymour Duncan pups right from the factory (APS-1's). For a C shaped neck, I think it's just a bit chunkier that I prefer...doesn't quite have the "wow" factor for me that my Mexi's do, but that's a taste thing...again though, the workmanship is superb!

So regarding "origin", while yes...I obviously like my Mexicans and yes, I truly feel there's nothing like those Japanese models that came out of FujiGen in the mid-80's, I honestly gotta say that this Korean model is just an unbelievably fine instrument.


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:50 pm
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donnycraven wrote:
Smokin' Frets wrote:
donnycraven wrote:
American Standard Stratocasters and Gibson USA Les Pauls are the two best production line guitars in the world period.


I think that's a little too "short sighted", if you forgive me that term.

There's absolutely high class guitars out there, which aren't hand built in some Custom Shop!

Not sure but I even think PRS (not SE!!!) has some production line guitars. They're AWESOME instruments!

Same goes for Ibanez, Jackson, Music Man, Vigier (just played a 3500 bucks Vigier strat three days ago), just to name a few.

If you reduce the guitar world to two models from two manufacturers, you're running around blindfolded. And I'm not talking about hand made guitars like Basslab, Kritz, PRS Custom, Zerberus and all the other very high end exotics.

They might be the ones YOU like best but please not with "period" at the end of the sentence. :wink: :wink: :wink:





Well I would have to check and see what hangs in most Hard Rock Cafes.
What most proffesional musicians and major stars out there are playing.
What the top sellers are, who was the originals.
Who gets copied the most, to be sure.
I will have to get back to you on that after I do some research, OK?


Donny, you missed his point. He was saying they aren't alone in the "best production lines." He gave examples such as Ibanez, PRS, Carvin, etc. Looking at Hard Rock Cafes and who the plays what etc., That's more of a "what's popular" and not the best production guitars.


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:44 pm
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The orginal point was lost a while back
I believe Ive tried a few different brands

Heres a few
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1144526790095.16320.1735285541&type=1&l=32e9541995

Heres my current gear
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2769511573699.75586.1735285541&type=1&l=82a15f8b5e

I stand beside my original statement Gibson USA And Fender USA are the best production guitars out there.

I might give a lil light to what I based my judgement on

I worked at Worldwide music as the repairman for several years untill Musicians Friend moved to Kansas City MO and killed the store. To top it off I been a machinist 25 + years now. So not only do I do ALL my own setups I do everyone elses I see lots of guitars I truss thier necks I level crown and polish thier frets I install their pickups and tremolos, I set there intonation etc etc etc.

PRS are pretty much Gibson overpriced knock offs
Jacksons are ok.
I have worked on Ibanez and owned them they are flashy junk that needs upgrades.
Thier original Edge and Dimarzio alliance was really all that was good and Japan made.
Now they are Korean and Indonesian junk
Epiphones were ok untill the went to China now they suck
ESP & Dean have Identity crisis They think they are Gibson and Fender.
The only Guitar you named that is even a contender with Gibson and Fender is Jackson.

There ya go did I elaborate enough?

Here ya go this will help you decide IF I can play to know what Im talkin bout.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=vb.1735285541&type=2

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:18 pm
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donnycraven wrote:
The orginal point was lost a while back
I believe Ive tried a few different brands

Heres a few
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1144526790095.16320.1735285541&type=1&l=32e9541995

Heres my current gear
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2769511573699.75586.1735285541&type=1&l=82a15f8b5e

I stand beside my original statement Gibson USA And Fender USA are the best production guitars out there.

I might give a lil light to what I based my judgement on

I worked at Worldwide music as the repairman for several years untill Musicians Friend moved to Kansas City MO and killed the store. To top it off I been a machinist 25 + years now. So not only do I do ALL my own setups I do everyone elses I see lots of guitars I truss thier necks I level crown and polish thier frets I install their pickups and tremolos, I set there intonation etc etc etc.

PRS are pretty much Gibson overpriced knock offs
Jacksons are ok.
I have worked on Ibanez and owned them they are flashy junk that needs upgrades.
Thier original Edge and Dimarzio alliance was really all that was good and Japan made.
Now they are Korean and Indonesian junk
Epiphones were ok untill the went to China now they suck
ESP & Dean have Identity crisis They think they are Gibson and Fender.
The only Guitar you named that is even a contender with Gibson and Fender is Jackson.

There ya go did I elaborate enough?

Here ya go this will help you decide IF I can play to know what Im talkin bout.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=vb.1735285541&type=2



I see what you did there. You hyped yourself up and then stated your opinion to be fact. Gotcha! Kudos!

I'm a wildlife biologist. I have been in this field for over 20 years doing research and management of ecosystems and species. After all of my education and experience, I can tell you that squirrels are the best animal on the planet. All the rest suck. Period.


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:25 pm
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Wait! I didn't do any comparisons!!

racoons - how can you trust an animal that washes it's hands?
rabbits - everything eats them and bucked teeth went out years ago.
Beaver - Messes up every dam thing. also see rabbit
Bears - anything that will use a rabbit to wipe its butt with isn't all bad but you can't trust them. Ask Mr. Ranger.
Squirrels - plays with nuts all day. ****Winner****


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:41 pm
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jackdragbean wrote:
I can tell you that squirrels are the best animal on the planet. All the rest suck. Period.


Whales have better tone though, and I should know, I have DVDs of everything David Attenborough has ever done.


Last edited by Drubbing on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:51 pm
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Drubbing wrote:
[quote="jackdragbeanI can tell you that squirrels are the best animal on the planet. All the rest suck. Period.


Whales have better tone though, and I should know, I have DVDs of everything David Attenborough has ever done.[/quote]


Are you a professional biologist? Have you ever held a squirrel or a whale for that matter? No you're just a hobbyist. Whales suck. Squirrels are better. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:56 pm
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See its pointless this is pointless.
You guys keep asking me back but you really dont care what I have to say and I really dont care what you have to say either.
So...
Why dont we stop kicking a dead horse?
But thanks for helping me rank up by debating pointless bull$h!t
See ya round the boards :)
Oh and fyi I was showing ya I was legit.
I really dont need kudos for past victories.

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