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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:53 am
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Neo-con flag wavers are your best entertainment value......

:lol:

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:27 am
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Definitely matters to me. If you want value for money with a great wide neck and Texas Special pickups go for an American Special Strat. They're affordable and they're US made which holds re-sale value better than a Mexican made Strat. Great for blues and rock. Very similar sound to the SRV model as well (except a lot cheaper)!!


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:54 am
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Dan9999 wrote:
They're affordable and they're US made which holds re-sale value better than a Mexican made Strat.


I've never taken resale value into account when buying an instrument - If I buy it, my intention is never to sell it, and if I do end up selling it and making a huge loss, well, that's my fault for being an idiot and buying the wrong thing. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:23 am
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Vulpinity wrote:
Dan9999 wrote:
They're affordable and they're US made which holds re-sale value better than a Mexican made Strat.


I've never taken resale value into account when buying an instrument - If I buy it, my intention is never to sell it, and if I do end up selling it and making a huge loss, well, that's my fault for being an idiot and buying the wrong thing. :lol:


i agree, dont buy a guitar with the intention of selling it later on down the line, whether it's mexican or american if it feels right just buy it!


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:28 am
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I'll put my 2 cents in.

Origin matters very much to me, for quality and for political reasons.

1. Political - I won't buy anything - guitars, cars, toilet paper - from a country which doesn't value their people. If they have slave labor, or women's rights issues, or more cell phones than toilets, or no environmental standards and just dump industrial waste in drinking water - I won't buy anything from them.

2. Quality - I have an American HSS Strat which is light years better than the Fender Starcaster that is sold in Best Buy (no idea what the country of origin is), and is a nicer guitar than the Mexican Strat, but that may just be parts and not actually labor.

My MIA strat has locking tuners, upgraded custom staggered pickups, delta tone, comes with a hardshell case, body is a 1 piece where the Mexicans can be up to 5 pieces molded together....so it's not that the guitar assembler is any better, but that Fender allows slightly better components into the MIA to justify the higher price.

My guitar doesn't have to be American. I love my Agile Les Paul made in South Korea. I have an acoustic made in Mexico that is awesome. I've played Fender Standard Stratocasters made in Mexico that were brilliant.

I think that both the MIA (~$1,000 US) and MIM (~$500 US) are priced right. Both really nice guitars.

I have a friend with a Fender Squire Classic Player (60's?) that he loves (~$300 US) - I played it and felt like the neck was really cheap and the tone was shaky, but he's also a much better player than I am, so he sounds better with that guitar than I do on mine.

The Fender Starcasters (in Costco and Best Buy) are junk and should be avoided. Same with whatever Gibson is in that store. A used guitar on Craigslist would be less money and better quality (here in the US anyway).

IMO - Hendrix would sound better on 5 strings wrapped around 2 tin cans with a magnet and wire connected to a speaker than I would with a $20k guitar, so there is that too. Music is ultimately in the hands and the heart (or soul, or whatever Spinal Tap phrase you could substitute in here).

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:44 am
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You are sitting in front of a Chinese made computer..
Mainboard and assembling at least, many components (caps, resistors etc.).
Gibson guitars are ALL made in the US of America.
I know it´s not your main point here but it is worth to think about that for a second.

Peace,
Robin

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:21 am
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Robinstrat wrote:
You are sitting in front of a Chinese made computer..
Mainboard and assembling at least, many components (caps, resistors etc.).
Gibson guitars are ALL made in the US of America.
I know it´s not your main point here but it is worth to think about that for a second.

Peace,
Robin
.

ASUS laptops are made in Taiwan actually, with American components, and I did factor that into my purchase.

The "Gibson" model I was referring to is called "Maestro by Gibson", and is to Gibson as Epiphone is to Gibson.

Though I've seen some very nice Epiphones, the Maestro I played was quite terrible.

Appreciated that everyone needs a start, but some companies are in fact nicer than others.

The company that made my Les Paul - Agile - is South Korean and makes very nice guitars in that price range ($100-$300).

Look - I know what Arjay meant when he joked about neo-cons being the best form of entertainment. That whole "my country/religion/whatever" is better just because...waving flag.... :lol:

I do love all people - and music can and does connect us in ways that sports sometimes falls short.

Still, I believe that Fender (and Gibson) have produced awesome music instrument lines for all price/ability/commitment spectrum's, and sometimes those components are better (US, to me) without it meaning that the workers are better.

Just my opinion....and we all know what opinions are like..... :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:08 am
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rob123xyz wrote:
lomitus wrote:
rob123xyz wrote:
Would you buy a Porsche for a few thousand less Euros that was made in Indonesia—even if Porsche supposedly imposed strict quality control over the manufacturing?


Depends...is it going to be priced like a Chevy or is is it still going to be priced like a Porsche? Find me one price like a Chevy and sure! You betcha!!! If it looks like a Porsche, drives like a Porsche, is backed by...well...Porsche -and- I could actually afford it...in what reality should I care where it was made??? LOL!!!

Welcome to the new world :-)
Jim


Let's say that sort of like the way MIM's cut a few corners and use less-than-premium woods and finishes, pickups, etc. than MIA's, that these cheaper "Porsches" had vinyl seats, lower horsepower engines, Chinese shock absorbers, and a lower-quality paint job. Yeah you could upgrade all that, but then you'd be back in premium cost after all. I remember decades ago when Porsche put out their "affordable" 924 with Volkswagen running parts and Audi engines. They were later referred to as "Porschewagons". Well to each their own. I think it's good that Fender has affordable entry-level guitars for those that cannot afford an American-made one. Not for me though.

Cheers.



If Fender used "less than premium woods and finishes" in their imports, including MIM's, you might actually have a point, but that's not really the case. Let's face it here, Fender is a GLOBAL company...do you really have any clue how often Baja and Corona may actually swap parts? Think about this very carefully...say the Corona plant got back ordered or perhaps had an equipment breakdown or any of the other things that can happen in a manufacturing environment and in this case let's say that it prevents them from making necks until the issues is fixed. Now let's say that Guitar Center corporate places an order for 100 American Strats (I'm keeping numbers small and round here for ease) for one of their warehouses to distribute to store inventory...and the Corona plant is 25 necks short. Do you really think that a GLOBAL company with resources all over the planet is going to tell Guitar Center's "Sorry....we can't deliver..."? Do you think their just going to have the Custom Shop make those to cover a production model? If the Baja plant has a skid of necks sitting in inventory, don't you think those necks are going to make a quick run up the road....what is it, a 6 hour drive or something? As I recall there was even a model line that Fender put out that was stamped "Made in USA" but was only "assembled" in the USA...the bodies and necks were all made in Baja... And this is just -two- of their manufacturing facilities!

Perhaps in your mind the use of poplar or agathis or even basswood is somehow a "less than premium wood" because you think a Strat should be made of alder but you've over-looked something here as well...back in the 50's when Leo made those first Strats out of alder (and/or ash), he didn't do it because he thought it was a "superior tone wood", he used that stuff because it was plentiful in CA at the time (much like poplar is here in Ohio), was fairly easy to machine and was economical for a mass produced product...alder being some kind of superior tone wood had very little to do with it. If Fender had of been based on the East coast instead of out in CA, all those vintage Strats would most likely have poplar bodies instead of alder. The problem is that being "vintage Fender" if that were the case people would swear up and down that poplar was somehow a superior tone wood to that cheap alder stuff they use out on the West coast! LOL!!! The truth is that there are companies out there using basswood in instruments costing up to $2000 or more...nothing "less than premium" that at all.

Beyond this, again I have an '08 Chinese Squier Standard and beyond that, I do know a little something about guitar finishes as well and I will tell you first hand that there is -nothing- less than premium about the finish on that instrument compared with a Mexican or an American! That CIC is simply one of the finest finishes I've seen on ANY guitar, regardless of brand/origin. Yes, like my Mexi's, it has a poly instead of the urethane (which is still a poly) but in either case you're still talking about the guitar body essentially being wrapped in "plastic". What's more is that I have a couple of instruments down in the studio with those poly finishes that are over 25 years old now. I'm sorry if someone's insane sense of american pride blinds them to this but there is -NOTHING- wrong with those poly finishes!

And pickups? As I've said here and elsewhere, I never cared for the American pickups anyways...the newer americans really just don't sound "Stratty" enough for my tastes regardless of the money. The '94 Fender "Squier Series" I recently got with the cheap import pickups and cheapo pots sounds MORE like a Strat that most American Strats do these days...and yes, I just used her on stage last night! Sounded -GREAT-...I just wanted to see how she was going to sound in a "real life" gig setting...ended up using her for the first two sets. And I finished the night on my mid 80's MIJ :-)


And yes...I am old enough to remember the Porsche/Volkswagon collaboration...Porsche and Volkswagon actually had a long running collaboration that dated back to sometime in the 1950's as Porsche did most, if not all of the R&D for VW in those days. The 924's replaced the older 914's (which weren't quite the performance machines people like to think they were...). Even the 924 Turbo's that came out later started with the Audi blocks. The problem wasn't the vehicles my friend...don't try and B.S. people with that...the 924 was one of Porsche's best selling models. I'm sorry if this offends, but the truth of the matter is that the bad rap you refer to came from little more than a sense of snobbery associated with a name, -NOT- the quality of the vehicles as your post insinuates. Even with the VW/Audi parts, those 924's were Porsche's thru and thru.


This is just my own personal opinion as always but all of this again really seems to come down to little more than some misguided preconceptions and/or a bloated sense of pride more than anything significant or tangible regarding "quality"...and in any case, it still just does not justify the radical price difference at all.

So again, yes...I would certainly own an "import" Porsche...if I could actually afford it.

Jim


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:57 pm
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Robinstrat wrote:
You are sitting in front of a Chinese made computer..
Mainboard and assembling at least, many components (caps, resistors etc.).
Gibson guitars are ALL made in the US of America.
I know it´s not your main point here but it is worth to think about that for a second.

Peace,
Robin


I'd be interested to find out where Les Paul std tonepros bridges and hardware are manufactured. Not that it matters, but even American fender guitars have components that are sourced from the east..

You're right, it is worth thinking about if you are wanting a guitar that is sourced entirely from the USA.

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:14 pm
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DetroitBlues wrote:
Does it matter to you if your Stratocaster was made in USA or Mexico?

There are times I will be in one store, and the MIA Strats all feel perfect and the frets are even, etc, but the MIM ones are not.
Then I'll go to another store and the reverse is true--the MIM's play better.

Hey, I've gone into stores and the Squiers play more nicely than either the MIA or MIM guitars...

I'm not going to base my purchase on whether the guitar is MIA, MIM or wherever, but on which guitar speaks to me

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:44 pm
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Loving this thread... I cannot afford an MIA Strat either. I would like to own one, but my wife would kill me and I would always feel as though I threw away money that should have been spent on my kid or more of a necessity item than just a toy for me. But man do I want one... especially a Clapton or a Mayer and the Dave Murray Iron Maiden Strat!

However, the "American Pride vs. American Guilt" debate in the guitar setting is nothing compared to that of my other hobby: Motorcycling! Y'all should see the vicious defense of spending $15k - $20k more for a Harley than a Japanese similarly featured bike that actually has better reviews from professional riders and critics in one-on-one comparison shootouts! But if you ain't ridin a Harley you ain't ridin! I don't ride a Harley and I will never be able to afford one (at least I should say that if I could afford one there would be a metric bike that would be a better bike to buy at a substantially lower price!)

At least until I get a big promotion, win the lottery, or someone gives me a REALLY great Christmas or B-day present; I will play a Mexican Strat and Ride a Kawasaki!

But to the original poster who said that they really dig the US SRV sig Strat... check out the MIM Deluxe Roadhouse and Lone Star Strats. About as SRV as you can get in a non-MIA Strat!

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:54 pm
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DetroitBlues wrote:
Does it matter to you if your Stratocaster was made in USA or Mexico? I've decided to trade/sell my American Standard Stratocaster in favor of a Classic Series or Road Worn Stratocaster because I rather prefer the neck profile and fretboard radius. I've either owned or played those models previously and realized I don't care if it says USA or Mexico on it. I want it to feel good when I'm playing it. The only American Stratocaster I really want now is an SRV Strat. Not because of SRV (which he is my favorite Strat player), but because the neck on his guitar is huge. I thought about KWS Strat, but I don't like 12" radius and the untinted neck. I just love the vintage feel/vibe of the Classic and Road Worn series...


I can relate. I started with an MIK Squier, then an MIM, and lastly an MIA. It seems to me the order most people follow. But then I fell in love with a specific MIJ Strat several years ago and now I have a collection of that specific MIJ model only. I just think my Strats are a good fit for ME.

I think the bottom line is the "Origin" topic will come up on this Forum forever as long as:
1. There are MIA owners who insist, all other Strats are lesser-Strats and the only reason someone wouldn't buy an MIA is they can't afford one, and
2. There are Non-MIA owners who insult the intelligence of MIA owners by accusing MIA owners of overpaying.

This arguement will never go away, because both are right and both are wrong.


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:03 am
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axeman417 wrote:
This arguement will never go away, because both are right and both are wrong.


+1
Very well said.

All the best,
Robin

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:59 am
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Somehow this thread drifts away into "are Asian made products generally better or worse than American ones?"

That was not the point in the OP's first post.

It was "Mexican or American" and only referring to Fender guitars (correct me if I misunderstood something, please!).

Regarding Fender guitars it does matter to me and some others.
This does not mean that I or them mustn't use other Asian or even Mexican products.
Often you get the same or even better quality from another country for way less money than the national one (as stated in the example with the bikes).
No argue about this from my side. I use Asian products as well. Some of them I'm even a big fan of!

Then again: quality is also measured with somebody's expectation.
Like some salesman told me once:
"If a customer expects our expensive item to last half a year and it does, then the customer is satisfied and we have delivered a "quality product".

What would a customer say, who was expecting the same item to last at least 2 years???

This is just an example but it clearly shows, how different customers can define quality and value for the money.

Same with the never ending argueing about MiM vs MiA.
Some are fully satisfied with MiMs, some are not. (for whatever reason) :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:05 am
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Yeah mexicans are ok... and if your ok playing one cool.
I myself have had 3 of them I went bankrupt a bit after a divorce and had to sell alot of guitars.
I was not to impressed with them compared to americans I owned.
at first I said oh its all the same stuff but its not.
The Americans are much better wood and quality control.
I have three American Strats, Highway 1, Standard and Deluxe.
I have owned several USA Jacksons and Kramers and Fender USA is better.
There is a reason you find all the giants with a Gibson USA or a Fender USA in thier hands.
You can find them at about the same price so thats not a valid argument.
but hey if you like your mexicans you like em.
Only mexican i wanna buy is from Taco Bell.

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