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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:56 pm
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Well, I have been playing my new FSR American Special since I brought it home at noon. It has three Texas Specials whereas my MIM Lone Star had two Texas Specials and a SD Pearly Gates Plus. My new guitar has a one-piece maple neck/fretboard and 70s head whereas the Lone Star had a rosewood fretboard and modern head. My AS is hand-stained alder vs. polyestered alder on the Lone Star. I am fairly confident the bridge and machine heads are the same on both.

The neck feels amazingly better on the new AS. I tried three MIM Strats and a MIM Tele at the store and all were similar to my old MIM Lone Star (I have never owned an American strat before.) I had to inquire about the AS I eventually bought because it was not on the store rack but the online website said they had one in stock. They found it in the back, removed it from the box and tuned it, then handed it to me to play. I noticed the difference immediately and now that I have been playing all day I am convinced it is not just "new gear" imagination at work!

Similarly, I am absolutely convinced that the Texas Specials in my new AS are better sounding than those in my old MIM Lone Star. I do notice that the poles on the pups are set very differently than the ones on the Lone Star (the pups on the Lone Star were factory stock setup just like on the AS, but they were all fairly low down whereas they are at staggered heights on the AS.) Of course, the Lone Star had the SD humbucker in the bridge position and also a rosewood fretboard as opposed to maple, so I would have had a better apples to apples comparison had I had a Roadhouse rather than a Lone Star.

I am a novice, so I just don't know if the differences in the tone are just due to differences in maple/rosewood, hand-stained alder/polyester over alder and 70s head/modern head; or if the American build, craftsmanship and/or parts are also contributors.

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my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:20 pm
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Tiger J wrote:
I am a novice, so I just don't know if the differences in the tone are just due to differences in maple/rosewood, hand-stained alder/polyester over alder and 70s head/modern head; or if the American build, craftsmanship and/or parts are also contributors.


If you want to open the guitar mythology worm can, then you could put it down to any of these. I'm a novice too and I too tried many guitars. They all sounded different - even ones with the same neck material. I never bothered to think why, I just looked for the one that felt and sounded best to me.

I go with this guy's take on it, cos there's too much bunkum in guitarland.



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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:23 pm
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I love it!!! I definitely fall in the dumb MF category! Having said that... I repeat that the Texas Specials in my new AS sound better than the ones in my old MIM Lone Star!

Are all TS pups the same? Does the fact that my new guitar has something called a "greasebucket" tone circuit make a difference?

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Tiger J

my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:55 pm
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Scott Grove does raise some very good points and arguments. I do believe 95% of what he says... Just cant get past the guy however- what a tool. I really doubt he has worked on "Tens of thousands of guitars" or "I have owned thousands of guitars- I know what I'm talking about" -utter ignorance. Still, I'd listen to Mike Eldred on this topic anyway- he has more creds to his name.

Had to laugh also when he had his own custom guitar with inlays saying that there is a tone difference when fretted above the inlays- I couldn't hear the smallest variation at all lol

Lots of good points, lots of guitar porn in the back of a guitar store. No backing of educated hypothesis.

Back to topic lol :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:16 am
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Tiger J wrote:
I love it!!! I definitely fall in the dumb MF category! Having said that... I repeat that the Texas Specials in my new AS sound better than the ones in my old MIM Lone Star!

Are all TS pups the same? Does the fact that my new guitar has something called a "greasebucket" tone circuit make a difference?


I think I may have found out why my new AS sounds so different from my old MIM Lone Star... as it turns out, it appears that the FSR American Special has Custom Shop Fat 50s instead of the Texas Specials that the regular American Special series has. That also explains why the poles are staggered while the ones on my Lone Star were not.

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Tiger J

my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:05 am
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Drubbing wrote:

I go with this guy's take on it, cos there's too much bunkum in guitarland.



Sorry, but this is one of the dumbest video I've seen!


1st): if I compare guitars, I tune them identically!
2nd): if I want to compare sound, I don't try to literally rip off the strings and let them snap back as if trying to cut the frets in half!
3rd): If I want to hear such subtle differences as in fretboard wood (and yes, there is a difference!), I don't use a crappy internal digicam microphone.

He's right about some really crazy myths like inlays changing sound as well. A human ear cannot pick it up if it should be there, neither can anybody hear the "more open sound" of a guitar where some pieces of finish in the size of a dime has been sanded off.

As far as maintaining the fretboard wood is concerned: well, I guess carpenters and luthiers must have done it wrong for thousands of years then. Why should ANYBODY get the crazy idea to maintain the quality of a living material like wood?? That's crazy indeed! Just let it dry and shrink and get curvy, it won't do any harm to an instrument! It's perfectly right to save two bucks for a bottle of fretboard cleaner which will last you approximately 2 years with owning 6 rosewood fretboard guitars (I do, and it did!) and rather have the fretboard on your 700 bucks guitar busted. Makes perfectly sense to me! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yes, there ARE stupid myths out there, no doubt but ignoring all of them just to be different in some way is simply stupid!
That guy is probably as intelligent as his language is high class.

Let's face it, there's people out there who can't even hear when the guitar is out of tune, some can't tell Les Pauls and Strats apart ...... so there is people out there who can't hear subtle differences in tone as well. Testing 1000s of guitars just doesn't help that! It's genetical.

Giving advice like he does with i.e. fretboard wood care is dangerous and ignorant! Therefore it doesn't help if he's right about some other points.

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My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:47 am
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Smokin' Frets wrote:
Sorry, but this is one of the dumbest video I've seen!

He's right about some really crazy myths like inlays changing sound as well. A human ear cannot pick it up if it should be there, neither can anybody hear the "more open sound" of a guitar where some pieces of finish in the size of a dime has been sanded off.

As far as maintaining the fretboard wood is concerned: well, I guess carpenters and luthiers must have done it wrong for thousands of years then. Why should ANYBODY get the crazy idea to maintain the quality of a living material like wood??


You agree that inlays changing sound is a crazy myth, but different fretboards isn't?

Different guitars sound different. Have you ever taken a 'warm' rosewood board neck and swapped it for a 'bitey' maple and hear the sound change? Then again, people can hear just about anything their brain has made its mind up about.

I hear no difference between boards, just different feel, and most of that due to differing neck sizes, rather than the woods.

Wood isn't living. It's dead when it's cut for lumber. Just because it's a material that's susceptible to movement in differing temperatures doesn't make it living - plastics and metals can do that too.

Everyone has a different take on wood care. I sand and oil my decks every summer, but we get 100+ temps here, and my decks are out in the sun all day, every day. I don't do that to guitars. Some luthier's say to do as little as possible, and just clean as needed. There's always people that think more of anything good, is better.


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:25 am
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Drubbing wrote:

You agree that inlays changing sound is a crazy myth, but different fretboards isn't?


No, I said it's a crazy myth that somebody can hear it. I do not say it's impossible, since EVERY material in a guitar has an influence on sound. With many parts it's just so very minimal, that no human ear could detect it, hence it is neglectable.

I fully respect your opinion.
Take it positive: if you can't hear it, you don't have to bother with fretboard woods unless you have a certain optical preference. :)

As I said, people's ears and people's understanding of sound coloration differ, sometimes even very much. Some people even don't hear the difference between plywood and solid wood.

I also agree that some people tend to hear "ghosts".

And yes, I have swapped many necks in the past, that's why I am convinced that there's a difference in fretboard woods.
Of course I did NOT swap fretboards only, which would be the correctest way but if all tests reveiled the same result .... that's enough proof for myself. :wink:

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Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:43 am
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There's 14+ minutes I'll never get back. Only DF I saw was in the video. :cry:


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:56 am
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Minnesotastrats wrote:
There's 14+ minutes I'll never get back. Only DF I saw was in the video. :cry:


DF??? :?
Watcha mean? :oops:

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Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:42 pm
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I think he was meaning Scott grove..

And yes, I lost 15mins of my life watching that too. I'll be moaning about that during my final hour :evil:

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:10 am
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Blertles wrote:

And yes, I lost 15mins of my life watching that too.


...but he gets lots of clicks! :wink: :wink: :wink:

There must be something about senseless talk-videos on YouTube.

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My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:57 am
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I don't believe origin has as much to do with it as what guitar fits your hands,playing style,what you hear etc. Yesterday I pulled one of my Tele's out of the closet (an Indonesin Squire) and played it for the first time in a few months and it felt really good. After a few minutes I pulled a G & L ASAT blues boy tele out of the closet and began to play and it just didn't feel as good. I decided to change the strings on the G & L from 10's to 9's and made a few adjustments to pickup height intonation etc. and wow, what a difference. Both guitars have the neck width, radius, etc. that I prefer and sound good but with the adjustments the G & L just outshined the other tele. There is about a thousand bucks difference in the value of these two guitars and for most of us I doubt that properly set up either would not be pleasing to most of us as players. My favorite Tele and my go to guitar is a 94 MIM tele with the Tex Mex HB on the neck and single on the bridge. There can also be a great difference in two guitars of the same model, country of origin etc.. Just grab the one that feels right and enjoy. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:17 am
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Drubbing wrote:
Wood isn't living. It's dead when it's cut for lumber. Just because it's a material that's susceptible to movement in differing temperatures doesn't make it living - plastics and metals can do that too.


I missed to reply to this one in my previous post.

I failed to properly translate, I'm sorry.

Of course wood is dead after cutting, it doesn't grow biologically, nore is it provided by "nutrients" (engl.??) anymore to keep it "alive".
Since it is a material which does move, expand, shrink in different temperatures and moist or dry environments to a much much higher degree than "artificial" materials like i.e. plastic or metal, we use the term "living material" in German colloquial speech (not in the meaning of "being biologically alive" but in the meaning of "moving or reacting very much". It's a mataphor which doesn't work in English, I guess.)

We also use the term "working material" for wood, not in the meaning of "work" as "functioning" but with the meaning of "working hard to adapt to different environments" (expanding, shrinking, forming a bow....). That probably doesn't work in English either.

Some terms just can't be translated into foreign language without losing their meaning.
I made that mistake.

Example: If I would translate a German term literally, it would say "donkey's ear". You misunderstand because the English term is "dog's ear" (a corner of a page in a book being folded).

I apologize for not being more precise in translation, which lead to your misunderstanding of the meaning of my post.

Of course you're fully correct. Wood is dead after being cut for lumber.
I hope this could clear the meaning of my expression of "living material".

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My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


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Post subject: Re: Importance of Origin
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:12 am
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No problem. I also misinterpreted the 'living' word and associated it with the myth of wood 'breathing'. Some players go to great lengths to avoid certain coatings, so their guitar can 'breath'. Sometimes, a lifetimes of face-palms will never be enough.

Despite not being long in guitar land, I do recognise all the same myths, perceptions and baloney, from years reading audio forums, and I'm not buying into any of it.


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