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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:51 pm
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drutgat wrote:
Thanks guys.

There has been an interesting development in the last couple of hours in response to an ad that I posted over the last couple of days specifically asking for either a CS 60s or CP 60s.

The seller has two Strats for sale, potentially, and the one in which I might be interested is a Road Worn, stock, and apparently in very good condition. I have not played this guitar, but will probably do so.

If I bought this and wanted to make it more CS 60s or CP 60s spec, would this be possible? Will it be possible to swap out the pickups and ad others without much trouble?

I must admit that I had my heart set on buying either a new CS or CP, but hearing about the Road Worn (not my favourite finish, but at least it is 3 color sunburst) has me thinking differently.

I would greatly appreciate your advice.

Thanks.


Only real difference between the Road Worn and the Classic Series is the pickups and the broken in Relic'd look... I'd trade my American strat for one in a heartbeat!

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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:55 pm
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drutgat wrote:
Hi Arjay,
Thanks for your advice.

I was thinking along similar lines, except was thinking of buying the CS 69 pick ups (as found in the CP 60s) to put into the CS 60s.

What are the Custom Shop Fat 50s like in comparison to the CS 69s?

Also, I have to confess that even though I preferred the Classic Series 60s to the Classic Player 60s (because of the neck), the vast majority of posts that I have read about each guitar (e.g., musicians friend reviews, the strat-talk forum) mention consistent problems with the CS 60s, and virtually no problems with the CP 60s (except one person who had consistent problems with necks bowing and truss-rod adjustment problems on the CP 60s).

A consistent 'problem' (or maybe more accurately, 'characteristic') of the CS 60s seems to be a lack of adequate shielding, contributing to the noisiness of the pick ups.

If I had not read such a lot about people having to expend considerable effort having to 'tweak' the CS 60s to make it playable, I would have bought the CS 60s yesterday because I liked it so much (this is in sharp contrast to what people say about the instant 'out-of-the-box' readiness of the CP 60s).

Conversely, if the CP 60s neck was to my liking, I would have bought that guitar.

Among other possibilities for after purchase, I have also been intrigued by the possibility of wiring the switching back to a 5 way set-up.

Also, what is the 'super switch' possibility (on the CP 60s, I think)?

Maybe the solution is to buy either a CS or CP for now, and to subsequently start to acquire parts to build a custom ('partscaster') CS 60s. This might be a slower project, though, because parts do seem to be priced in such a way as to make this kind of project dependent on finding/waiting for bargains.

My plan is to play a couple more CS 60s (if I can, as I only know of one in the city), and CP 60s next weekend, and then make a decision on the spot and buy the guitar.

As always, I would appreciate any comments and suggestions regarding what I have said.

Thanks.


True single coils will always have a noise problem. I put Dimarzio area pickups in mine. Very close to fat Single coil tone, but zero noise...

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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:05 pm
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Hi DetroitBlues,
Thanks for the information about the DiMarzio area pick ups.

Even though single coils will all have noise problems, I was struck by the difference in that respect between the CS 60s and CP 60s I played a few days ago.

The CP 60s was virtually noiseless - I could not believe it at first - whereas the the CS 60s was (as one would expect) very 'sensitive' to the position/angle at which it was positioned in relation to the amp.


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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:18 pm
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I have two Strats equipped with DiMarzio Virtual Vintage noiseless pickups (soon to have a third as well). I didn't mention them as an option since they are a bit more expensive than most of Fender's available pickups and there were budgetary considerations. The DM's are great for eliminating traditional single-coil hum while retaining much of the design's sonic character. I consider them far superior to Fender's own Vintage Noiseless and SCN models.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:43 pm
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Hi Arjay,
Good to have both you and DetroitBlues giving the thumbs up to DiMarzio's - if I choose to go the noiseless pick up route at some point, I will check those out.

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:37 pm
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Our resident pickup guru The Martian is also fond of DiMarzio's.

One of the bonuses of those pickups is, they use Fender's standard 250K volume and tone pots (nothing additional to buy in order to install them).

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:27 pm
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Ah.

This opens up a whole new area for me.

If the DiMarzio pick ups did not use Fender's standard 250K volume and tone pots, would one have to buy others in order to use the pick ups? Or would all of the electronics have to be re-wired and/or re-soldered?

Sorry, but I am an innocent when it comes to this technical stuff.


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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:04 pm
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Fender's SCN pickups use 500K pots and their Vintage Noiseless types require the 1Meg types. Thus, everything "under the hood" needs to be replaced when installing these pickups (if transitioning from traditional single-coils). Seymore-Duncan offers some noiseless Strat pickups as well but I'm not certain which pot values they need.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:06 pm
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Thanks, Arjay.

I have to say that learning about Fenders (as opposed to Gibsons, Gretsches and Rickenbackers) has opened up a whole new world to me, and I am grateful to you for your help and encouragement in this.


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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:12 pm
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Hi Folks,
Well, my search is at an end. After going through the Squier Classic Vibe 60s Strat, then the Fender Classic Series 60s, I have finally settle on the Classic Player 60s.

It is a delight to play, and although I am not crazy about the pick-ups (the least range in sounds out of the three guitars), it will definitely do for now.

Here are a couple of photos, and thanks to everyone for answering my questions and providing sage advice.

Image

Image

I found that the 12" fretboard radius made this guitar playable right out of the box, whereas I had real difficulty with the 7.25" fretboard radius of the Classic Vibe 60s and especially the Classic Series 60s (because the action on the latter was too high for me, even after a set-up).


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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:57 am
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I just eyeballed the end to this post...nice choice, although I am not too fond of the 2 point trem to be honest (don't use the wang bar, and block mine) and I think for someone who has been so into Gibsons for so long, that the CP60 12 inch fretboard radius might make for an easier transition, especially if you are going back and forth during a gig. Enjoy the Strat, she is a beauty!

T2

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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:57 am
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Hi T2Stratman,
Thanks for your reply.

I, too, do not really use the trem bar, but thought that it would be good to have a guitar on which I have the option (none of my other guitars have trems), 'just in case'.

What is it that you do not like about the 2 point trem? I have read that most people tend to prefer these to the 6 point trems on the Classic Series 60s.

And, yes, I think that you are right about the fretboard radius - because I have been into Gibsons (and their 'off-spring'), I am probably more used to a 12" fretboard radius, although I was getting used to the Squier Classic Vibe 60s 9 1/2", when I had it for those couple of weeks - the 12" is definitely better for me, though.

I also think that a 'larger' fretboard radius suits me better because I am not as accurate as I would like to be when playing quickly, and the 12" is more forgiving, even with smaller frets than I might be used to.

Thanks, once again, for your post, and good wishes.


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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:50 pm
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DetroitBlues wrote:
I've had both the Classic Series (50's) and Classic Players (60's) Stratocasters as well as messed around with the Classic Vibe.

My clear-cut favorite was the Classic Series.

Why?

The Classic Player neck is a modern C, but has a 12" radius, giving the neck a way too thin feel. The pickups were custom shop 69's that are stock, but they are way too mellow and the middle is not reverse wound... Too much noise and neck wasn't comfortable. Deals can be found cheap. I got mine for $300 used at Guitar Center, virtually brand new. Sold it for $500 because I found an American Strat for $500 at Guitar Center.

The Classic Series is the closest to the real deal from the era. The soft V neck profile and the 7.25" radius is actually very comfortable to play. The pickups sounded just right, much better than American Standard Single coils, Texas Specials, Tex-Mex, Noiseless, Vintage Noiseless, CS 69's, and MIM Standard coils. Best sounding I've heard so far from Fender. Might be because the staggered poles match the radius more correctly than modern fretboard radius's. I got this one for $400 and only one I wish I still had. Traded it for a hand wired Deluxe Reverb Clone. I like it better than my American Standard (which I bought for $500)

Now the Squier Classic Vibe is a great guitar, but like many of the Squiers, the necks are uncomfortably small. Width at the nut is too narrow, neck is too slim, and replacement pickups are not a good idea because the pole spacing on the pickups do not align with the strings at the bridge and nut giving you a weak output on some strings, especially when doing any bends.

Hope that helps....

+1 here. I own a 50's classic series, and a CP 60's. I much prefer the feel of the c.s. I don't care for the 12'' radius on the CP neck, but it does sound good enough for what I play, but if I had to choose between the 2 I would choose the classic series strat.

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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:04 pm
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Arnold Layne wrote:
DetroitBlues wrote:
I've had both the Classic Series (50's) and Classic Players (60's) Stratocasters as well as messed around with the Classic Vibe.

My clear-cut favorite was the Classic Series.

Why?

The Classic Player neck is a modern C, but has a 12" radius, giving the neck a way too thin feel. The pickups were custom shop 69's that are stock, but they are way too mellow and the middle is not reverse wound... Too much noise and neck wasn't comfortable. Deals can be found cheap. I got mine for $300 used at Guitar Center, virtually brand new. Sold it for $500 because I found an American Strat for $500 at Guitar Center.

The Classic Series is the closest to the real deal from the era. The soft V neck profile and the 7.25" radius is actually very comfortable to play. The pickups sounded just right, much better than American Standard Single coils, Texas Specials, Tex-Mex, Noiseless, Vintage Noiseless, CS 69's, and MIM Standard coils. Best sounding I've heard so far from Fender. Might be because the staggered poles match the radius more correctly than modern fretboard radius's. I got this one for $400 and only one I wish I still had. Traded it for a hand wired Deluxe Reverb Clone. I like it better than my American Standard (which I bought for $500)

Now the Squier Classic Vibe is a great guitar, but like many of the Squiers, the necks are uncomfortably small. Width at the nut is too narrow, neck is too slim, and replacement pickups are not a good idea because the pole spacing on the pickups do not align with the strings at the bridge and nut giving you a weak output on some strings, especially when doing any bends.

Hope that helps....

+1 here. I own a 50's classic series, and a CP 60's. I much prefer the feel of the c.s. I don't care for the 12'' radius on the CP neck, but it does sound good enough for what I play, but if I had to choose between the 2 I would choose the classic series strat.

Each to his or her own, I guess.


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Post subject: Re: Advice Please on Buying 3 Different '60s Strats
Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:41 am
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drutgat wrote:
Hi T2Stratman,
Thanks for your reply.

I, too, do not really use the trem bar, but thought that it would be good to have a guitar on which I have the option (none of my other guitars have trems), 'just in case'.

What is it that you do not like about the 2 point trem? I have read that most people tend to prefer these to the 6 point trems on the Classic Series 60s.

And, yes, I think that you are right about the fretboard radius - because I have been into Gibsons (and their 'off-spring'), I am probably more used to a 12" fretboard radius, although I was getting used to the Squier Classic Vibe 60s 9 1/2", when I had it for those couple of weeks - the 12" is definitely better for me, though.

I also think that a 'larger' fretboard radius suits me better because I am not as accurate as I would like to be when playing quickly, and the 12" is more forgiving, even with smaller frets than I might be used to.

Thanks, once again, for your post, and good wishes.


Maybe don't like is too strong. I just don't see a need (again I don't use a whammy) and I personally think Leo got it right the first time. I think it is more marketing than anything else. Better in the case of the tremelo is mearly opinion.

Still you got a nice guitar that suits you so enjoy it and don't worry what others think.

T2

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