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Post subject: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:05 am
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Ok...with some of the comments that have been posted to these forums, both recently and in the past, I'm going to give folks an opportunity to put their proverbial money where their mouths are! I know this isn't practical for you folks on "the other side of the pond" but for those here in the states, if you're in the Cleveland/Northern Ohio area (or find yourself passing thru), here's what I propose...a blind taste test. 6 guitars...all Strats...2 Mexicans, 1 MIJ Squier, 1 CIC Squier, 1 "partscaster" and -yours- (I -may- be able to substitute one of the MIM's for an American but I have to check on that). They would be played thru the same amp twice...once a clean run and a second time with crunch. I can provide either a tube or a solid state amp (I have some 10 amps to choose from), but you will have to use the same amp for all of the tests.

I invite you to my basement studio, where we'll sit down with you blind folded and I will hand you each of these six guitars -at random- (and I will change the order between clean and crunch), including yours, to see -if- anyone can tell the difference based exclusively on the sound and feel of each instrument! Now, I'm not going to allow cheating here...again you will be blind folded and no "feeling around"...no groping the headstock, pickups, etc., to see which is which...left hand remains on the neck, right hand holds a pick (I will make allowances for you finger pickers but you have to be consistent...either all pick or all fingers). Also the volume and tone controls will be wide open...in other words, if you have a push/pull pot on yours, you won't be able to use it...no tugging at the controls. This is to be based on the sound and feel of the guitars exclusively as you're playing. Picking out your own guitar -should- be easy enough, particularly if it's a USA model since there seems to be so many who think these are somehow superior, but with all the comments that fly back and forth on these forums (as well as others) and all the folks who bad mouth MIM's and particularly Squiers, let's see how many, if any, can really tell the difference once the proverbial lights are off. I promise to be good nature'd about this...heck...I may even learn something myself and I'll happily provide the coffee!

Beyond this, the only other conditions that I would apply are: 1.) I -am- a smoker and I -do- smoke in my own home! If you don't like "stinky guitars" or cigarettes bother you in any way, then no need apply. 2.) I do have dogs and cats so if you have allergies, you'll want to consider the offer carefully. In other words, if you need a rescue inhaler for any reason, probably best to decline. 3.) Obviously this will be open to right handed players only as all my Strats are right handed. Also to keep the experiment fair and unbiased, those with S-S-H or double H Strats need not apply...your guitar would have to be S-S-S...I'll allow for humbuckers in a single coil package (ala Duncans) as at least one of mine is configured like that, but if your instrument clearly has standard humbuckers, it will have to be excluded from the test to keep things fair. Also guitars with easily discernible neck shapes such as the Clapton Sig models with the soft V or anything with a scalloped fretboard will also be excluded. I can allow for U shaped/60's profile necks as I can provide at least one other guitar that also fits this, but again let's keep it fair. Likewise, if you have a Jackson, Charvel, Kramer, etc....this is open to Fender and Squier Strat owners only.

And for the sake of fairness, if anyone does take me up on this offer, I'll have my wife do this little test with me. After all, I blow my own mouth often enough around here about my instruments! LOL!!!

Those interested, may respond via a pm with an email or phone number where I can contact you so that I can provide you with my address and directions (sorry...not posting that here).

Once finished, results will be posted back to these forums for the enlightenment of others :-)

Soooo...any takers?

Peace,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:12 pm
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Wow.

Having read your previous posting regarding Squiers, as well as this one, I can't imagine anyone taking you up on your offer to lead them into your basement and blindfold them.


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:24 pm
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If I was in the area, I'd take you up on it.
"Sounds" like a good experiment (no ten impunded).


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:55 pm
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A similar challenge was conducted with violins. I don't recall all the brands that were used and all the particulars of the blind test, but several newer (and less expensive) models did as well or better than the Strads, which are considered by most to be the gold-standard of violins.


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:53 pm
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Quote:
Soooo...any takers?


The cards are obviously stacked in your favor. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:10 am
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You might want to add "use same string gage" believe me that makes a lot of difference on feel ( I used Ernie Ball 8s since at least 1978 and nothing else feels right to me) not that im going to drive 1000 miles for the test...but just incase some one else does :)

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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:34 am
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Yesterday I made a little test with myself involved (no nasty things).
I couldn´t see a thing and my son handed me any of my guitar (seven in all) and I had to say which one. I limited myself to just touching the neck (backside), not grabbing the rest of the guitar, no playing, right hand behind my back.
I could tell which guitar is which in a heart beat.
Well, that were my guitars and I play some of them for years. The only thing I want to say is the fretting hand is really making out the differences in neck profiles even if they are very small.
Don´t let the people play the guitars before the test starts.
All of them will make out the American in seconds (rolled fretboard!).
The only thing the test will show is that all guitars sound different and all the people have their favourites, but maybe I will be surprised.

All the best,
Robin

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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:23 am
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Quote:
Having read your previous posting regarding Squiers, as well as this one, I can't imagine anyone taking you up on your offer to lead them into your basement and blindfold them.


Since you seem to suggest or insinuate the intent of wrong doing on my part, I would be willing, if not happy to work out a neutral location...doesn't have to be my basement studio at all. I'm sure it would be easy enough to find someplace local that would allow us to bring the guitars and amp in for the test (as long as we keep the volume reasonable) For that matter I'm on pretty good terms with the manager of my local GC...actually he owes me a favor or two so that could be possible as well. Just thought that it would be easier and perhaps a bit more fun for all in my studio.

Likewise, let me say perfectly clearly that anyone who does not feel comfortable, is perfectly welcome to bring a friend, chaperone, parent or other guardian figure. I can easily acknowledge that in this day and age, there are plenty of people out there on the internet who are willing to physically harm others...I want people to feel perfectly safe during this.

This was intended as a friendly challenge to those folks, who like myself, shoot their mouths off to give them (as well as myself) a chance to prove themselves...nothing more.


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:45 am
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Quote:
Yesterday I made a little test with myself involved (no nasty things).
I couldn´t see a thing and my son handed me any of my guitar (seven in all) and I had to say which one. I limited myself to just touching the neck (backside), not grabbing the rest of the guitar, no playing, right hand behind my back.
I could tell which guitar is which in a heart beat.
Well, that were my guitars and I play some of them for years. The only thing I want to say is the fretting hand is really making out the differences in neck profiles even if they are very small. Don´t let the people play the guitars before the test starts.
All of them will make out the American in seconds (rolled fretboard!).
The only thing the test will show is that all guitars sound different and all the people have their favourites, but maybe I will be surprised.

All the best,
Robin



This is why I proposed my studio and my guitars. In theory at least, any person with a degree of experience -should- be able to identify each and every guitar they own...even if they own several. However identifying the makes and models owned by others...and picking your own out among them, that's where the challenge lies.

So that said, for those who do wish to simply try this themselves (and I salute the effort!), I would suggest doing it at a local Guitar Center or Sam Ash, etc.. Take your favorite instrument in with you and either ask a friend or even a saleperson to randomly hand you the guitars (I would suggest first explaining to the sales staff the nature of the experiment so no one wonders why you're sitting in GC blindfolded! LOL!!!). Again the other conditions should still apply...you want the instruments to be on a reasonably fair and equal footing...the point of the experiment (in part anyways) is to either prove or dispel the myth of the preconceptions that many people seem to have about ALL of these instruments. While obviously this comment will likely upset a few, there -are- people around here who see the Squier name or even MIM on the headstock and automatically jump to the word "junk" with little or no justification what so ever and typically without even playing the instrument...all based on the visual observation of the name. And likewise, many of these same people see "Made in the USA" and automatically assume said instrument is better than anything else without any question at all....again without having really played other instruments in a -fair- comparison (if you've already made up your mind that "guitar #3" is junk based on the name, it's NOT a fair comparison and your ears will likely hear that instrument in accordance with your preconceptions). But once you take that visual and mental reference away...all you're left with is "a guitar"...how it sounds and how it feels. And at the end of the day, that's really what it's all about (or at least should be).

Peace,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:53 am
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Quote:
The cards are obviously stacked in your favor. :lol:


How? If anything, I'm trying to go out of my way to try and make this little challenge as fair as possible. As I just stated above, it doesn't even have to be my guitars/studio...ust thought that would be easier and more fun, but any local music store willing to participate would do (although if I'm personally active in this, I would still want at least 1 partscaster involved in the test as well).

So how's the deck stacked here?


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:00 am
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Quote:
A similar challenge was conducted with violins. I don't recall all the brands that were used and all the particulars of the blind test, but several newer (and less expensive) models did as well or better than the Strads, which are considered by most to be the gold-standard of violins.


My point exactly. In fact a while back I saw a video where a similar test had been performed with several professional studio engineers regarding analog vs. digital recording (similar raging debate there as well). Even top studio pro's could only identify the difference correctly an average of 50% of the time.

Again..precontraceptions...gotta love 'em :-)


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:36 am
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lomitus wrote:
...precontraceptions......


:lol: Good one! I guess that would be something that you do before putting on a condom? :lol:

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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:32 am
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lomitus wrote:
Quote:
The cards are obviously stacked in your favor. :lol:


How? If anything, I'm trying to go out of my way to try and make this little challenge as fair as possible. As I just stated above, it doesn't even have to be my guitars/studio...ust thought that would be easier and more fun, but any local music store willing to participate would do (although if I'm personally active in this, I would still want at least 1 partscaster involved in the test as well).

So how's the deck stacked here?


Wow, I don't really know where to begin.

They're your guitars, not representative of any given "off the shelf" guitar. I assume you handpick your guitars.

They're your guitars, they're set up to how you like to play. I guarantee you, I'd probably want to do a setup to any of your guitars.

The amps are setup to your liking. So picking up one guitar and comparing the tone to another doesn't matter. Your amp is probably set up to your favorite guitar and your less liked guitars may not sound as good.

The "which guitar is best" isn't something that would matter. Amps can be adjusted to better suit one pickup over another.

All I would do when I grab the neck is feel the fret ends while I play. The consistency of the action height and relief is something I can feel without seeing. That has more to do with me liking a guitar than how it sounds. The consistency of a well leveled fretboard can be heard. That has an affect on the quality of your tone, but doesn't really change the tone.

So trying to sell the tone of one guitar to another is pointless in this comparison. How they play is pointless is also mostly negated by the fact that the guitars would need to be set up the same. For example, I have two amazing strats. My ESP Strathead has a neck with amazing vintage style relief... it plays just as awesome as my flat relief Fender Deluxe. They both feel completely different for a number of reasons. They're both necks you don't want to put down. Which one is better? Judgement call.

So you can try to take all the bias out as you want, but it's still there. You could just have easily said "Go to your store, compare the fret ends, action and relief of a Squire and an American Standard". It's obvious you're trying to convince someone else to validate your opinion. I'm fairly certain there's a specific name for this type of fallacy.

And I agree with your later post, it's a thing to do with friends and for fun, but your methodology is very suspect.


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Post subject: Re: A challenge...6 "Strats"...
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:02 pm
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Bet I could pick out the ones with 'noiseless' pickup right away.

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