It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:56 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: string angle over the nut
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:11 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:29 am
Posts: 937
i have had a disproportionate amount of B string breaks on my mim strat over the 8 years ive had it. first couple of times it happened i filed the saddle down a bit to smooth it, and a few months ago i put some graphite on the nut to try improve the string travel there. ive never done much more than that because ive had other guitars to play.

a roller string tree to me seemed the next easiest and cheapest thing to do, so i got some off ebay and having fitted it, the angle of the string over the nut has greatly reduced. it used to have a normal bent metal one 'M' shaped one, which was screwed down flush to the wood which took the strings down to the same level. as you can see, the roller tree sits much higher.

is this a problem ? i cant see why it would be, just wondering.

Image

Image

these arent the same design as fender roller trees ive seen fitted as stock, but i cant find fender ones local or online, so im guessing they dont sell them seperately ?


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:41 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:47 pm
Posts: 5
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessor ... ng-guide-2



There's your Fender roller trees. The break angle over the nut might be a problem. Does bending and/or tremolo use allow either the B or E string to pop loose? If not, I wouldn't worry about it that much. My question is, if you've been breaking a lot of B strings at the nut, have you had a tech check out the slots in your nut? Do you notice any binding there? I find graphite to be a band-aid, not a cure. The cure is to have your nut slots tweaked to fit your string gauge.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:59 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:15 am
Posts: 522
Where exactly does the string break. near the nut or the bridge. Sorry if I missed that part of your issue.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:08 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:29 am
Posts: 937
i should point out it hasnt happened for a while, but that could be because i dont it so much/so hard these days. it used to snap at the bridge mostly. i figured id graphite the nut and fit the roller tree just because at least things would, in theory, all move a little bit more easily.

ive always been reluctant to change the saddles because i dont gig anymore and ive got a few other guitars to play, so its money i dont really need to spend. its not like a string snaps everytime i play it. just a little more frequent than usual.

thanks guitarlord, ive gotta try find somewhere in the uk to buy them though. at least i know they are available now.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:23 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:13 am
Posts: 248
The string angle at the nut is just fine. It's a whole lot less than a Gibson.

Generally, if you're experiencing string breakage, particularly if the strings aren't old and worn out or oxidized, the break will occur close to where the problem is. Either the nut or the bridge. Most breakage problems seem to be near the bridge.

I had a GFS bridge once that had a nice steel block, worked nicely, and sounded great, but it would break strings after a couple hours of use. I could have reworked it I suppose, but I just chucked it and put on a nice Wilkinson.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:27 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
Hi moochy: there are two reasons for stringtrees. One is to increase the angle to stop the high strings jumping out the nut slots, which happens for some people some of the time if the tree isn't there on a six-in-line type headstock. The other is to add a little downward pressure to the top strings as they pass over the nut, because without it people have sometimes felt that the transmission of vibration and therefore tone from string to neck is compromised.

If neither of these are an issue for you with the new tree then it's just fine as it is.

Personally, I can take my top strings right out of their stringtree without any problems. Depends on the player and his hands and ears, I guess.

Regarding your breaking B string. If it's breaking at the bridge (as they normally do) then of course you should just do a little check on the string run as it emerges through the plate and travels through the saddle slot to make sure there isn't a stray bit of flaked chrome or a sharp edge somewhere that's causing breakages. But most likely the B string is breaking more simply because that's the one you work the hardest in terms of string bending, which places stress on the metal (*). Hate to say it, but changing your strings more often is the remedy for this...

Anyhow, it sounds like you're not breaking B strings quite so often now, so probably all is good.

Cheers - C

* Edit: come to think of it, we probably do the most bending on the G string, don't we? But anyway...

_________________
Image


Last edited by Ceri on Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:11 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am
Posts: 1247
I'd also say that changing the string tree didn't do anything to solve your problem, since the string breaking occured at the bridge. Therefore I'd certainly expect the problem to be located at the bridge or it's a problem of the brand of strings you use.
I once used a bunch of sets of a certain manufacturer and I regularly broke the B and G strings.

Couldn't find the problem at the bridge but after changing the string manufacturer, I didn't have that problem anymore. So it was the strings, not my bridge those days.

Anyhow, having changed the string tree and therefore having changed the angle shouldn't pose a problem, as long as the string runs with proper pressure over the saddle, resulting in no "vibrating" sounds (citar like) or no strings jumping out of the slots.

I have a Fender guitar with no tree at all (most shallow angle possible) and it's no problem at all.

So, either checking the bridge again or changing brand of strings might resolve your problem.

_________________
Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:25 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:15 am
Posts: 522
Check your saddle to see if there is a burr that needs to be smoothed out. It could be that the string is hitting a sharp edge inside the bridge before it gets to the saddle. If that is the case a piece (1/2inch) of plastic wire insulation from a 20 gauge piece of wire placed on the string then put through the bridge and strung up may help.

Just a thought.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:25 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:37 pm
Posts: 37
Location: El Paso, TX
Hi, I'm not a pro...but I saw something.

I suggest that you cut a significant amount of string before you re-string your guitar. There is just too much string going around your tuners which causes slipage (especially in the thicker guage strings) and also effects the angle the string lays against the nut. My luthier who initially set up my guitar made sure that the strings do not go around the tuners more than twice (unless you down-tune a lot). Generally, this is what guitar books advise as well.

I haven't broken a string in 4 years on either of my guitars (Fender 2009 Std Strat, Schecter 2005 PT). I use Fender Bullet 9's on my Strat and Ernie Ball 10's on my PT.

My favorite strings are Fender Bullets.

Try restringing your guitar with two winds maximum slack on your tuners and you should be fine.

Good luck! :D


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:47 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am
Posts: 1247
marcaltus wrote:

I suggest that you cut a significant amount of string before you re-string your guitar. There is just too much string going around your tuners which causes slipage


Could be true regarding the 4 thicker strings. 2 rounds are just fine.
You'll probably need up to four on the high e and b string (depending on the tuner), otherwise they might slip through.

DO NOT CUT STRINGS BEFORE(!!) restringing, just pull them further through and cut after secure and non-slipping resting of the strings is ensured!

_________________
Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:49 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:15 am
Posts: 522
Don't look now but if you ever see BB King's guitar, he winds all the string on the post. He never cuts his strings, and they never slip. 4 wraps on the large strings is not bad. I have seen as many as 8 wraps on the high strings to lower the angle on the post to prevent that above the nut harmonic (ping).


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: string angle over the nut
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:27 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:15 pm
Posts: 603
marcaltus has a point. From the pictures you can see the steep angle of the E and A strings that are a result of four windings around the post.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: