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Post subject: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:41 am
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Hey guys, first post here,also my first restore (so be gentle) I'm hoping to restore a 2004 Fender Squire Strat. I found this poor thing at a local music shop. $40. The previous owner had sanded, and laquered the body. No more sanding. Runs. Drips... horrible. The pickguard had been painted black, then covered up with white label stickers. I want this guitar to have a second chance at life. I've cleaned it all up, replaced the pickguard, etc. I've never done wood finish and have this horrible "orange peel" drying going on. I will include pictures if needed. Will the wetsanding/buffing process take this out? This project is a test run to see if I can do this. I have a 1987 tele that needs a restore, but am afraid to attempt without some knowledge.

http://i45.tinypic.com/34pjfxu.jpg <--- the before picture... it's a lot worse than it looks.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2je8jy9.jpg <--- current progress on the body. it's bubbled. "orange peel"

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>> Gear <<

2004 Fender Squire Strat
1995 Korean Squire Strat
1987 Japanes Fender Telecaster
Schecter Diamond Series Damien Elite

Line 6 75 watt Spider III
Peavy Supreme XL head
Cabinet -none :[

Not the absolute greatest... but it's mine :p


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Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:55 am
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Here's a link for some common causes for the orange peel:
Finishwiz

Polishing & buffing usually aren't enough to get rid of bad op-bumps.
Let it dry thoroughly (a month if possible), then wet sand till you get the surface smooth. Remember: don't sand to bare wood, only the finish. Respray if needed.


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Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:41 pm
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Thank you, I'll let the guitar cure fully first. It still has the smell from the clear coat. When it's cured, it wont smell. I'll make an update post to tell you how it goes.

_________________
>> Gear <<

2004 Fender Squire Strat
1995 Korean Squire Strat
1987 Japanes Fender Telecaster
Schecter Diamond Series Damien Elite

Line 6 75 watt Spider III
Peavy Supreme XL head
Cabinet -none :[

Not the absolute greatest... but it's mine :p


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Profile
Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:32 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:26 am
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Sanding dry or wet will take out the orange peel as long as the finished has cured and is thick enough to take the removal of finish.

What kind of finish did you use and how many coats did you give it?

Heavier sandpaper (400 grit) leaves deep scratches that requier a lot of finish to be removed before you get the scratches out. Finer sandpaper is a lot of work on a heavy orange peel.

It takes some practice to work out a formula that works for you but know that you can get a really nice finish even if you start with heavy orange peel. And of course you need to
use a block to back the sandpaper.

John


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Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:40 pm
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I used minwax polyurethane clear. Eight or nine coats. Alternating light and heavy with about an hour between coats. The neck only has 3 light coats.

_________________
>> Gear <<

2004 Fender Squire Strat
1995 Korean Squire Strat
1987 Japanes Fender Telecaster
Schecter Diamond Series Damien Elite

Line 6 75 watt Spider III
Peavy Supreme XL head
Cabinet -none :[

Not the absolute greatest... but it's mine :p


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:28 pm
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Abstractfear wrote:
I used minwax polyurethane clear. Eight or nine coats. Alternating light and heavy with about an hour between coats. The neck only has 3 light coats.


I've never used that so I can't say how many coats are enough. 3 light coats doesn't sound like enough to sand orange peel off though. Of course all that really matters is how thick the coats are but it's hard to imagine 3 is enough.

I would start sanding in a place that doesn't show, like the part of the neck that ends up in the neck pocket. You'll know quick enough if you sand through. If you're wet sanding you'll get a white spot where you sand through. You don't want this to happen. It's hard enough to fix with nitro but with finishes that don't burn into each layer you can get witness lines. To get rid of that you have to respray the whole neck.

The neck is a bit more forgiving area for orange peel, you don't have to get it as perfect at the body. Still, I'd think about adding more coats, but keep in mind I don't really know how thick your finish is. But it's easier to take finish off then put more back on once you start the sanding.


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Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:52 pm
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:19 am
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Aright :) As I said, once it has cured I will attempt the sanding and will let you know :) much thanks.

_________________
>> Gear <<

2004 Fender Squire Strat
1995 Korean Squire Strat
1987 Japanes Fender Telecaster
Schecter Diamond Series Damien Elite

Line 6 75 watt Spider III
Peavy Supreme XL head
Cabinet -none :[

Not the absolute greatest... but it's mine :p


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:02 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:15 am
Posts: 522
Allow more drying times between coats. That's why the orange peel surface. Plus you need to sand between coats. Your in to much of a hurry. Chances are the orange peel goes all the way to the surface.

Give it a good 24 hours between coats and lightly sand between each coat. No thick than thin - all the same. If you want to get a pro finish slow down.


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Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:41 am
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
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Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
jmattis wrote:
Here's a link for some common causes for the orange peel:
Finishwiz.

That covers most of it. The best thing with orange peel is to understand how it happens and not get it in the first place.

I've just a couple of points to add to what's been said so far.

First is that there is no reason to be waiting a month before dealing with this issue. You do that with nitrocellulose before finish-buffing because nitro takes that long (and a lot longer) to harden. However, you say you're using polyurethane, Abstractfear. Urethane has a much shorter cure time than nitro. And in any case, you are sanding off orange peel, not finish-buffing, so whatever the lacquer there's nothing to wait around for. Have at it, sand it absolutely flat and then redo your final coats.

The other thing; you mentioned a clear coat?

Is the orange peel in the colour layer underneath, or in the clear coat? If the latter, well then you just need to sand the clear smooth, which will probably take it back to the colour coat beneath in places, and then do some more clear coats over the top, this time nice and smooth.

However, if the orange peel is in the coloured paint and then there is clear over the top you are going to have to sand much further, removing all the clear and a lot of the colour as well, till the surface is smooth. In all likelihood you may go all the way through the colour too in some spots, so you are then going to have to redo at least four or six nice thin, flat colour coats and then clearcoat over that.

Presuming you actually need to clearcoat at all - do you?

If it were me the way ahead would be simple: sand off the orange peel and then spray another four to six coats of colour. Let it cure then buff to a mirror surface. Nice flat finish; no witness lines. Job - done! :)

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:52 pm
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:19 am
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Alright. Update. The polyurethane had cured (or so I thought). The front of the guitar was great. Coat was low in some places, but an easy fix. The back; however, was still slightly wet in a few spots. The coating heated up with sanding and bubbled up into a mess. I've worked it all off. Debating on abandoning the wooden finish. Possibly a swirl paint job. The wood has areas that need to be filled in with wood filler. I appreciate all of the help. Also, are you saying to not apply a clear coat? Just polish the enamel paint?

_________________
>> Gear <<

2004 Fender Squire Strat
1995 Korean Squire Strat
1987 Japanes Fender Telecaster
Schecter Diamond Series Damien Elite

Line 6 75 watt Spider III
Peavy Supreme XL head
Cabinet -none :[

Not the absolute greatest... but it's mine :p


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Questions about restore, lacquer orange peel
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:43 am
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Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
Abstractfear wrote:
The back; however, was still slightly wet in a few spots. The coating heated up with sanding and bubbled up into a mess.

It bubbled? Bit confused as to what you mean by that - could be two or three different things. You didn't take a photo, by any chance?

Does your urethane come with a curing time mentioned on the container? How long do they say? And how long did you in fact give it?

Is it a two-pack urethane, where you mix two different containers together to activate the product? If so, that you say some of it was still wet in places sounds to me as if it wasn't mixed thoroughly and the hardener wasn't evenly distributed through the lacquer.

Alternatively, we could be talking about adhesion issues, which would be caused by problems at the surface prepping stage.

Difficult to say without more info.

Abstractfear wrote:
Also, are you saying to not apply a clear coat? Just polish the enamel paint?

Enamel is a different thing again. Let's leave that out of it.

By the way, are you using aerosols or a spray gun?

Far as clearcoating is concerned: you do that when a layer beneath needs protecting or when it can't be buff-polished without disturbing the colour finish, for example in the case of metallic paint, or sunbursts.

There's no reason why you can't always clearcoat if you want, but it isn't always necessary. For example, on solid finishes such as plain black, white, sonic blue and so forth there is no actual requirement to clearcoat. You can wet-sand, buff and polish the coloured paint just fine without it, and in fact the colour will stay truer over the years without a clear lacquer gradually darkening on top.

Back in the '60s Fender sometimes clearcoated solid finishes and sometimes not, in a completely haphazard way. White '60s guitars that have gone very yellow almost certainly have a clear coat, those that have stayed bright white generally don't.

When I'm using a solid paint on a guitar I don't clearcoat. But that's not a rule, just a choice.

Cheers - C

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