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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:30 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Location: Perth, Western Aus.
a7e7d7 wrote:
Talking with a sales guy in my local music store this morning, he asked what amp I was using.
He said with a solid state amp, I'm only hearing a digitally produced sound and not the guitar's true tone.

So none of your CDs are any good either, because you're not listening to vinyl, or the master tape?

There are very good SS and dig amps available today, the Cube is one. As a relative beginner I choose a good sounding, but basic SS amp - Vox Pathfinder. I've taken mine into music stores and the salesdudes always comment how sweet the amp sounds. It's too cheap, so their perceptions are it couldn't be any good.

For practice amp usage, the clean sound isn't going to get much better with something vastly more expensive, and I've tried plenty out of curiosity. I'm hearing my guitar very well ('87 Japanese Strat - Lefty). Dirty is another thing, practice amps aren't pro gear, and SS don't always sound as nice breaking up, or may have a limited window of useable dirt. Some will do it better than others too.

Haven't read all the posts, but there is a massive amount of tube bias (and mythology) in guitarland. Always has been, always will be. Mostly it's about preference. But at small and practice amp levels, the differences are probably minimal. Besides, 15-40w of tube aren't going deliver their optimum in home settings, so a SS or digital modeller are usually more practical.
...

I would also +2 the poster who said not to get hung up on learning to read music. I'm not, You don't have to, and IMO doing so at the beginner level (as I am) will only hinder progress. If all you want to do is learn a heap of your favourite songs, the internet can teach you these.

If you want to learn guitar, as opposed to just favourite riffs and licks, then there are structured lessons available online too. Basic music and guitar theory is probably an important part of learning how to play, but that isn't the same as reading musical notation. I follow justinguitar.com because it's all free, no teaser lessons or product spam, and I choose to buy his stuff because of that.


Last edited by Drubbing on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:59 pm
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My favourite was the guitarist (of much professional experience and superb skill and tone, but no technical knowledge) who waffled on and on about the 'warmth of the tubes' and 'true dynamic response' of his loaner amp, only to be gently informed that those things he thought were neatly enshrouded tubes in the back of his amp were in fact large capacitors, and he was actually singing the praises of MOSFETs. :lol:

You know what? He promptly returned the amp, calling it 'solid state rubbish'. That's how deeply ingrained the bias towards tube gear is. It makes me kind of sad to think how much technical innovation has been pushed aside over the years due to that, and it makes me even more sad when I realise I'm just as guilty of it as anyone - when I'm playing smaller gigs with my solid state portable rig, and my tone is absolutely spot on, there's still that little voice in the back of my head which says 'But it's not tubes...'

I've always found it odd that there's no such bias in the jazz/fusion world, which is full of sweet, fat tones and smooth singing overdrive that most blues and rock players would kill for.


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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:08 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Good of someone like yourself with long experience to say that.

It's funny isn't it? We live in a world that prizes technical advances in almost every area known to man. But when it comes to guitars and music, people will cling to 70yo technology to the death.

How good a living do you reckon a haematologist would make if at your first consult she said, 'yes, iron infusions have come along way since the 70s, but nothing beats a course of leeches in my opinion'.

That said, I'm probably going to enter the tube fray myself soon. I really like the sound and versatility of the SuperChamp X2. I'm pretty sincere in picking it on preference, and I've heard some tube amps I just didn't like, but I do get a cosy glow inside knowing it has too.


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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:29 am
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Quote:
...but nothing beats a course of leeches in my opinion



ROFLMAO!!!!!! Geez...I needed that! Yep...nothin' like a good blood-letting to clear the ol' noggin of those evil spirits! LOL!!!!!!!


Quote:
It's funny isn't it? We live in a world that prizes technical advances in almost every area known to man. But when it comes to guitars and music, people will cling to 70yo technology to the death.


Ya know, with all the Dad stuff I've been dealing with over my father recently, that jarred a cute memory/story. The way I actually ended up with this Bugera V22 was a few years back, my Dad and I had been out Christmas shopping...it was kind of our yearly thing until he got to the point that he couldn't really get around these past couple of years. Anyways, I had drug him into the local Guitar Center...if nothing else to annoy the crap out of him (even though he "supported" my being a musician, he just never really got the whole guitar obsession thing). I had been reading and hearing about these little Bugera's...a couple of decent reviews (beyond "Oh...it's Behringer...it sucks") and wanted to give one a try. I had popped into GC a couple of times before that but they were always out of stock. They actually had one this time, so I sat there jammin' on one for a bit...not only was I impressed, particularly considering the price point, but even Dad had to break down and admit that it sounded pretty decent.

Now a little background here...back in the 50's Dad used to be an electronics repair guy (for GE if I recall correctly) before he became a printer and had actually rewired his old reel to reel for stereo before "stereo" had really become popular...a beastly old Voice of Music unit with 6L6 power tubes (which is still down in my studio). So fast forward back to that day at GC center. Again even Dad was pretty impressed with the sound of this amp, so I looked at him and said, "check this out...". I turned the amp around to show him the glowing tubes and Dad was just floored..."Why would -anyone- want to use vacuum tubes??? I didn't know anyone even still made those darned things...". I think Dad was still bitter about the days back in the late 60's when he used to have to rip all the tubes out of the old TV set and take them down to the corner drug store to put them on the tube tester that used to stand in the corner....just always used to annoy him I think trying to figure out which tube was getting weak. He did buy the amp for me, but all the way home he kept going on and on about the vacuum tubes...really just didn't understand why anyone would want those stupid things any more, LOL!

Anyways, I know there's a few audiophiles still out there who prefer tubes for their stereo gear, but this mostly seems to be a guitar player thing. In a world full of cell phones, iPods, iPads, e-readers, digital cameras, Garmins, etc., it's rather amazing how such a comparatively small portion of the population (even among guitar players) can have such a tremendous impact on a rather specific aspect of technology.

Peace,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:07 am
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Just experiment with different string gauges and brands, different pick materials and different cables. You will get a different sound each time.

There are so many variables to the sound, that you need to start somewhere, and that should be a good strat for a good start! :D


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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:23 am
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The local best-price dealer in my city told me to stay away from tube amps at all costs, simply because it isn't worth the expenses as also the hassle of changing tubes. You may get a wonderful tone from the tube amp that makes even a cheap guitar sound good, but once it is time to change the tubes, you'll have a hard time. It's more of a convenience and running cost issue. I don't know how easy it is to maintain tube amps where you are located, but here, experts and professionals say if you're on your own, solid state is the way to go.


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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:36 pm
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Arjun_M wrote:
The local best-price dealer in my city told me to stay away from tube amps at all costs, simply because it isn't worth the expenses as also the hassle of changing tubes. You may get a wonderful tone from the tube amp that makes even a cheap guitar sound good, but once it is time to change the tubes, you'll have a hard time. It's more of a convenience and running cost issue. I don't know how easy it is to maintain tube amps where you are located, but here, experts and professionals say if you're on your own, solid state is the way to go.


Sad .... Is that also the advice on transportation :roll: :?: ..... Stay with the Pulled Riskshaw :wink: Since it isn't worth the expense of replacing liters of fuel .... :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:43 pm
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Let me think about the tubes in my amps....
The SIEMENS EL34 quad in my JCM 800 are from 1986, still going strong.
The 5881 Sovteks in my Blackmore are the first tubes that ENGL put in there, it is from 1995. Both amps had gigs and thousands of hours playing.
I have two ECC83 from Telefunken, built in the ´60s I use them if I want to be sure to put in some tubes that are working (just to make sure it´s the tubes not the amp).
That said a tube is like a light bulb it can work for years and years or it breaks the next second.
The good thing about tube amps is you can change the tubes. Try to change the power transistors in an amp on stage or in between soundcheck and the gig.

All the best,
Robin

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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:12 pm
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Lets not forget the band that put solid state amps on the map and made "tuck and roll" a household name.

Creedence Clearwater Revival and those Kustom SS Amps.

There are a lot of Pro's who use SS amps on Stage all the time.


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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:16 pm
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SNick wrote:
There are a lot of Pro's who use SS amps on Stage all the time.


And even more who use them in the studio. I've been rather surprised quite a few times when I've discovered various particularly sweet, fat, warm tones on albums which I assumed to be some exotic tube amp were actually recorded with solid state or even straight into the desk. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:16 pm
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Just watch the video and enjoy the tones, thx.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBSmO-9OmcA

All the best,
Robin

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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:30 pm
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Robinstrat wrote:
Just watch the video and enjoy the tones, thx.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBSmO-9OmcA

All the best,
Robin

That was fun.

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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:09 pm
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On Tone: Whenever we get into this area I remind the readers of an excellent 3 article series which Premier Guitar Magazine ran entitled....The Psychology of Tone.. Search their archives and read up. :idea: :wink: If the OP wants a bigger sound at a reasonable price IMHO the Fender Frontman100 is something to consider. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:42 pm
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Robinstrat wrote:
Let me think about the tubes in my amps....
The SIEMENS EL34 quad in my JCM 800 are from 1986, still going strong.
The 5881 Sovteks in my Blackmore are the first tubes that ENGL put in there, it is from 1995. Both amps had gigs and thousands of hours playing.
I have two ECC83 from Telefunken, built in the ´60s I use them if I want to be sure to put in some tubes that are working (just to make sure it´s the tubes not the amp).
That said a tube is like a light bulb it can work for years and years or it breaks the next second.
The good thing about tube amps is you can change the tubes. Try to change the power transistors in an amp on stage or in between soundcheck and the gig.

All the best,
Robin


Can't even remember the last time I had to change power transistors, at a gig or otherwise. As a failure mode, you're kind of looking at replacing output tubes *and* a blown output transformer in a tube amp as a comparison - try doing that on stage.

I think the most maintenance I've ever had to do to any of my solid state gear was replace a couple of bad pots and a socket or two, which are just as likely to go wonky on tube gear. I did have an IC go once, but that was a case of undo screws, pop chip out of socket, insert new chip, done.

Don't ask me to add up how many times solid state gear has let me down at gigs or sessions vs. the same for tube gear - If I went purely by that, I'd not have a tube amp in the house. :lol:

For example - the other night, I was doing a dep gig for a local band whose guitarist damaged his hand. Mid-set, some drunken idiot wanders across to my side of the stage, falls against my speaker cab, knocking it over and yanking the speaker cable out. Because I was using my solid state rig, I could just utter a few choice curse words, plug back in and carry on. Had I been using my tube rig, they wouldn't have had guitar for a while until I replaced output tubes, checked the fuse on the board, prayed to some assorted deity that the output transformer was okay, and then carried on playing with a tone which probably wouldn't be right due to not having time to bias the new tubes.

Once again, just in case I'm coming across as some raving solid state disciple, I really, really love tube amps - but they're not some magical tone solution, and for a working guitarist who doesn't have a stable of technicians and roadies, solid state really does have a lot going for it. :)


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Post subject: Re: Solid State amp. Guitar's true sound?
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:13 am
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Four screws and 7 solder joints for a Soldano SLO, four screws and 4 solder joints for a small Fender amp to change the output tranny, power tubes and the fuses.
You are right regarding the better failure quote for solid state but I saw many PA power amps blow up. I am afraid the times are changing 8) :lol:

Peace,
Robin

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