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Post subject: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:36 pm
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can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck? perhaps warmouth im interested in trying a smaller scale like 24 3/4 is that what the robin trower scale is? any input or personal experience in this would be apreciated. thanks


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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:14 am
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You cannot change the scale by changing the neck for 2 reasons.

First your neck is set in a pocket and bolted in so regardless of what the fret count is the neck will sit in the same location.
However if the neck is made to accomodate the discrepancy of a body and neck set up for a 25 1/2 scale then maybeeeee.... :?: :?: :?

Second, I assume you have a trem bridge... :?: This is actually the most critical factor since a scale length ( appropriate ) is a measurement between your nut's edge ( where the strings leave the nut towards the bridge ) and a mid point on your bridge's saddles ( lenght of the saddle's travel fore and aft )

Third Option, if you have a hardtail bridge then you can relocate the bridge to allow for a 24 3/4 scale, but you will need to plug holes and refinish, there are also more issues if it is a thru body strung hardtail...

In short it is going to be expensive to modify, I would suggest looking for a 24 3/4 scale guitar, leaving your MIM as is then keep or sell....

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:08 am
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A friend recently mentioned he was thinking of buying what he called a short scale compensated neck for his Strat. I think he said it was from Warmouth. I was skeptical and like Magnatone, I mentioned the bridge might need to be moved. He said the bridge didn't need to be moved and it was all calculated in the size of the neck. So, it might be possible. You would probably lose one fret. I didn't check myself.

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:28 am
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Yep, you've been able to buy short scale necks for Fenders which bolt on with no repositioning of other components required for a while now. I fitted one of the Warmoth 24 3/4" ones to a friend's twin humbucker Tele earlier in the year - Great idea in my opinion, and after a few slight intonation tweaks at the bridge, all is compensated for by the layout of the neck. Bolt on, usual setup & intonate, play. Couldn't be simpler.

As long as you make sure it's a neck designed for fitting to an otherwise standard longer scale instrument, you're fine. Just bolting an otherwise standard 24 3/4" scale neck onto a Strat with have hugely unpleasant results if nothing else is changed. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:58 am
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jim 0001 wrote:
can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck? perhaps warmouth im interested in trying a smaller scale like 24 3/4 is that what the robin trower scale is? any input or personal experience in this would be apreciated. thanks

Yes you can, those Warmoth necks you asked for are these

But a cheaper and faster way to check if you like a shorter scale would be to go out and test play some Jaguars (24" scale) in your local music store.

If by "Robin Trower" you refer to the Custom Shop RT Signature Stratocaster, those have a 25.5" scale.

53magnatone, the bridge doesn't know what the scale length is. Scale length is just a distance between two points (string contact at the nut and the bridge), the fret spacing layout follows from this. A trem bridge or hard tail has nothing to do with this.
Sure, one can't put a regular 24" neck straight on into a regular 25.5" body, but that is a different story alltogether.


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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:14 pm
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The Warmoth necks will work. If you have something other than warmoth, but something else design for 24.75" scale, then bolt it on and measure from nut to bridge. If it is ~24.75 inches, within an intonatable (is that a word?) tolerance then it will work.

Disclaimer: I am not a guitar tech but I think I'm correct.

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:34 am
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We just finished with a thread like this and a pretty hefty discussion at that. Eldred weighed in with some relevant comments. It's the "Mike Dispell The Myth Thread on the Eldred Forum. You'll have to do some reading before you get to the meat of it. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:03 am
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I'm still unconvinced when taking into account that the body is a 25.5 scaled setup.
But I will go to that thread and read up before a final say.

I'm skeptical due to looking at the warmoth link posted earlier which shows a 22 fret neck ???
thus it's a contradiction since a 24.75 neck is shorter than a 25.5, thus they cannot or should not be able to both have 22 frets.... :? :?:

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:36 am
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You can find a fret calculator in many places in the net - say for instance StewMacCalculator if you want to compare 21 and 22 fret scales. But again, that's got nothing to do with this subject... :wink:

The key factor in a conversion neck is that the old bridge placement is taken as a constant - the neck is then planned to fit the neck pocket and the desired scale length; and the fret positions follow that scale.
(Of course usually, say in DIY guitars, you already know the scale of the neck, and then set the bridge according to that.)


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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:39 am
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Just went over the thread on dispell the myth and the rest of this discussion....

NO.....It's not going to work on a body set up for a 25.5 inch scale....

You can move everything around but you will have intonation issues at certain points.
The main reason being that a fretted instrument as we know a guitar is based on a tempered tuning.... :idea:

Tempered is the key word, which means a compromise, since with the setup we have of frets there are discrepancies in harmonic accuracies....
And to answer another poster..." it is actually rocket science " since as we are concerned, the end goal is to play on pitch, at all points of the available register of the particular instrument.
( which of course is irrelevant with most of the metal/death metal and what nots..... :wink: :lol: )

I would say that this is another argument in how to reinvent the wheel.

If you change critical dimension, then all other variables have to be revised and adapted to fit...
24.75 has to be made as a whole from bridge to nut, from neck to body and from where the pups are aligned in relation to pole position to string wave patterns ( how a string vibrates at 25.5 is very different from 24.75.....

From building guitars I can attest that getting the scale length incorrectly is a problem, but if Warmoth says it's a slam dunk and Mike Eldred says there are relocation issues and thus it will not work, I believe I will go with the guy that has been at this for far longer than I or any of us here...
As someone mentioned earlier that having a few off pitch points is not a problem..... :roll:
Well perhaps if you only play by yourself... :wink: ....However get into a band or jam situation and you will always be the one out of tune ( off pitch ) with the other musicians.....
Unless everyone is going for dissonant sounds..... :lol:

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Last edited by 53magnatone on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:50 am
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jmattis wrote:
You can find a fret calculator in many places in the net - say for instance StewMacCalculator if you want to compare 21 and 22 fret scales. But again, that's got nothing to do with this subject... :wink:

The key factor in a conversion neck is that the old bridge placement is taken as a constant - the neck is then planned to fit the neck pocket and the desired scale length; and the fret positions follow that scale.
(Of course usually, say in DIY guitars, you already know the scale of the neck, and then set the bridge according to that.)


The fret calculator " DOES NOT " convert scale length..... :roll: :?
So why even bring it into the discussion, it's a calculator based on a 25.5 scale, thus irrelevant to an application of a 24.75 scale.
21 or 22 frets or 24 has nothing to do with the scale lenght, you could go further up to 30 frerts but probably would have a difficult time getting your fingers in between the frets.. :lol:
Fret numbers and scale lenght are not two separate equation.
Frets are located according to the respective scale length and where the desired string pitch needs to be sounded at that particular spot on the neck.
You have to keep the various equations separate...

When you reduce a scale length or lenghten it, the corresponding nodes of each string at each fret have to be recalculated....Thus the frets would be in different locations at certain points of the neck.

A Mandolin, a Bass, a Guitar ( spanish as this is the scale we are working from ) all have different scales and fret positions...

It all comes back to Tempered Tuning, if you dismiss this then you have an unplayable instrument, pure and simple.
Please go and build some guitars if you doubt the people that have been building them.....
Then see why you have to conform to established equations and solutions....
Musical scales/nodes/notes are basically mathematical in nature.
An incorrect equation will render an incorrect result....... :shock:

The bridge placement is definitely not a constant, if you switch scale then the bridge has to move, it is only a constant relative to the scale it is set up to, change the scale and so follows the bridge re-location.....

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Last edited by 53magnatone on Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:00 am
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[quote="53magnatone]When you reduce a scale length or lenghten it, the corresponding nodes of each string at each fret have to be recalculated....Thus the frets would be in different locations at certain points of the neck.

A Mandolin, a Bass, a Guitar ( spanish as this is the scale we are working from ) all have different scales and fret positions...

It all comes back to Tempered Tuning, if you dismiss this then you have an unplayable instrument, pure and simple.
Please go and build some guitars if you doubt the people that have been building them.....
Then see why you have to conform to established equations and solutions....
Musical scales/nodes/notes are basically mathematical in nature.
An incorrect equation will render an incorrect result....... :shock:[/quote]

Well put. When I alluded to this in comments on the other thread, citing differences in choice of and pickup placement for the neck pickup on the PRS 22/24 I got a whole lotta poodoo from the chief discontenter therein.

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:12 am
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Well.... Doc.....This is one of the perils of the net forums, there are always poster's who will argue their standpoint regardless of established conventions......

I'm certainly not going to argue with ME and tell him I'm right and he's incorrect, but this why some of these threads are entertaining at times....
That being said, if I'm incorrect, then by all means, I would appreciate someone pointing out with established calculations as to why, ( not regurgitated comments from Wiki or other forums ) but sound principles of instrument building...
I looked this up quite sometime ago and I have a few books from luthiers who discuss the how's and why's of scale length and the end results.... :arrow:

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:25 am
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53magnatone wrote:
Well.... Doc.....This is one of the perils of the net forums, there are always poster's who will argue their standpoint regardless of established conventions...... I'm certainly not going to argue with ME and tell him I'm right and he's incorrect, but this why some of these threads are entertaining at times..

+1: It may also be safe to say that, in their R&D efforts, FMIC have explored these avenues in depth and understand well the issues in arriving at an acceptable result. There was everything in Mike's comments therein to suggest that, notwithstanding the fact that when he started out in the business with Charvel, he was building necks. That just might have given him some insight into the matter. Ya think??? :wink:

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Post subject: Re: can i change mim strat scale by buying new neck?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:35 am
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Nahhh....He's just another old timer that needs to be put out to pasture..... :wink: :lol: :lol:

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