Would I refuse SRV or Clapton's Blackie? No...I would however refinish either one in a heart beat!



A brand new car that has been pre-dented with a key'd finish would still "function 100%" would it not?? I've driven many (used) cars with cracked windshields...doesn't seem to affect my driving at all, but I still wouldn't pay extra for that feature in a new car. We're not talkin' about functionality here...we're talking about buying something that is, in this case at least, brand new but made to look used and worn out...and again paying extra for it. As such the analogy seems perfectly valid.




Funny...thought I used the furniture analogy there. Either way, I'll reiterate;

Let's say you walk into an antique dealer and you're looking to buy something like a desk. Let's also say that you have two sitting side by side...one that's been beat to hell finish-wise (but still "functional") and one that's either in pristine condition or that has been properly restored. You're really gonna take the beat to crap desk...and pay extra for it just because it's beat to crap?? Just my opinion but I honestly don't think most people would...



Someone asked. I provided an honest opinion on the subject and nothing more. Trust me friend...if your basing that assessment on this post, you have -NOT- seen me rant.

I wouldn't call it a rant either.
It's just discussing likes, just like guitar finishes or different tuners or different brands of strings or strat vs tele or ....

We've seen it all here before and we'll see it again with new members.

If somebody asks, I'm willing to share my opinion, taste, experience ... whatever is asked.

That's what we are here for, right?
Otherwise every answer to a new post would just be a link to a thread, where this topic has been discussed before.

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STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!

My sentiments exactly.

And like I said, if new (but not looking new) is your thing, then I say go for it.

Art

Sweet trio, is that ebony on the middle strat ?
I bet that's the custom shop

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Apparently I do understand, that's exactly what I said. First you say that you would have it, then say that the player has to make his own. The arguments have been, a) not done yourself, and b) naturally worn. Stevie's guitar would fit neither category, yet anyone would be glad to have it. Quite contradictory. Simple.

And, yes, rants. Broken windshields, broken headlights etc, is way beyond a worn finish. Discussing likes and dislikes is one thing, admitting ignorance is OK also. But saying things like "...it has to do with PT Barnum", "broken windshields and headlights" and other gross exaggerations, definitely falls well into the rant category.

BTW, PT Barnum never made that statement in the first place, regardless of the many misquotes.

Let's say... Let's not, it's just more ignorance that has nothing to do with anything except more useless ranting.

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Shimmi,

If I was offered Stevie's guitar (NOT a Stevie clone) I would be happy with it. Hell, it's history. And it is worth a hell of a lot on the collectable market. (think investment.) But do I want to pay for a brand new Strat fresh from the factory with factory fresh scratches and nicks? Hell no! But that's just me. I can pay less, get the same quality build, and a quality looking guitar.

I never said anything about headlights and windshields. That was somebody else. I did mention a heavily road worn Corvette though. For extra money.

Let's give it a rest.

Art

Hate the worn look. If my favorite axe is one day fuglied up with wear, I'll have her painted. Would you leave rust and original paint on a classic car? No. You don't. Do don't do it on a. Guitar. ESPECIALLY a new guitar made to look that way... That's for posers.

It was the early to mid 1980's when I was in a large music store in Mesa,Az. The salesman is a friend and he took me over to a large display case with a marykay Strat in it. He said look at this vintage strat! It was all beat to crap and paint was gone in places....I said, man! That guitar has been through the wars....I was stunned when he told me it was brand new and faked!! The worn places were done on purpose! It's called a "Relic Stratocaster". It blew me away to say the least. I just could not wrap my brain around that concept. Fast forward 20 years or so and I have come to like them a lot! I won't pay the kind of money Fender dealers want for them but that's another issue. I now have a minty 2005 "special Edition" mim standard stratocaster that I like very much.... .

+1

For the record, I do not own any relic guitars, and I'm not completely sold on them, especially given that the majority do not look authentic. With that said, almost all of my guitars were purchased used, and for reasons other than cost. From this perspective, I can understand the relic phenomenon.

The car analogy does not work. Right, you would probably not want to buy a brand new, rusted out car with broken headlights and windshields. Cars are not similar enough to guitars to make the comparison. From the moment you take a car off the dealer lot, it performs worse and worse with every moment of use. The handling declines, it loses power and performance over time, interior panels start squeaking eventually, etc.

Guitars, however, are different. There are functional aspects of a guitar that get better with use and age. The edges of the fretboard become less harsh; the finish will smooth down, slightly worn, and thus less sticky, etc. I think a majority of guitar players would agree that a well broken-in guitar is desirable. In the absence of warping or other significant problems, I cannot say that any of my guitars played or felt better on the day I bought them than they do now.

And this is why I buy used guitars. It's not the cost that matters to me; I actually paid more for the specific models I have than they cost about 15 years ago when they were first on the market (albeit for reasons other than those discussed here). First, I just want a well broken-in instrument, and while there is merit in wanting to break it in by oneself, on the other side of the coin, it feels like lost time when you can buy an instrument that already plays and feels like you want it to. Secondly, I don't mind any scuffs or scratches because it relieves me from the pressure of maintaining the guitar's pristine conditions. It's the same reason the first ding is always the worst. With used guitars, I skip this sentiment entirely. I honestly can't say I'd be getting the most out of my guitar if I walked around guarding its finish like it was gold plate, especially as a gigging musician. Give me one that someone has already had their way with, and I can play the hell out if it without a worry.

If this makes any sense at all, it's only a small jump to the relic phenomenon. I have given what I think are good, functional reasons for wanting used instruments, and in this sense, light relicing might make some sense. So what about the far out, barely any finish, dragged down a highway relics? Sure, they don't add anything functionally. But again, guitars are different. With cars, for example, technology has advanced and for the most part, modern innovation has triumphed and today's cars are faster, better handling, and more comfortable. With guitars, Fenders in particular, and given the CBS-era debacle, many would argue that they got it right in the 50s and 60s and that subsequent developments have failed to match the quality of the best specimens from that age. Furthermore, guitar players are driven and inspired by guitar players of the past. So you have a bunch of iconic role models, playing their time-tested old guitars with finishes to match, with younger players subconsciously absorbing the message that old strats are better than new strats. There is a strange, sentimental nostalgia prevalent in the guitar industry that doesn't necessarily translate to other industries, and the guitar industry has prominent figureheads (i.e. famous musicians) promoting the idea in a way that other industries lack.

If you can understand the rather reasonable, functional aspect, combined with the nostalgia unique to the music/guitar industry, then you might be able to at least understand the relic phenomenon, even if you don't necessarily favor it.

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It's all a matter of personal opinion and personal choice.

To me, a Relic Strat is a posseur, it's not 'already broken in', it's simply made to look as if it were. If the Factory were paying people to actually 'pre-play' it for 10,000 Hours before sale, that'd be different.

But I do like the look of a pristine factory-fresh Stratocater, especially when I lay out $1k+ for it... I'll try to keep mine as pristine as possible through the years, though will not surrender playing time for polishing time, so eventually, it'll reflect it's years of service...

But, I'm not looking to collect or acquire just for bragging rights - to me the guitar (even an LE FSR Stratocaster like mine) is a tool, nothing more.

That said, an excellent sounding used Strat (or anything else for that matter) that shows it's age is OK... paying more for the Road Rash is not... !!

But, that's just IMHO.. !

Others will take a different take on it and that's perfectly OK as well.. !!

cheers !!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele

Just gotta say, the new car thing is a bit off. Now if you said a "RAT ROD" then maybe everyone would get it, or maybe not. Consider the well worn torn down to the ground guitar the "RAT ROD", and the beautiful not a scratch on it the unmolested guitar the clean to the bone Hot Rod. So, some like the well worn look and some like the clean not a scratch on it hot rod look.
As it was said to each his own. But if you have never driven a Rat Rod or played a well worn Strat, do yourself a favor and try it.
Best to ALL

Worn is one thing. Scratches, dents, paint chips are another unless we're talking high dollar collectable. I'd keep a worn guitar. I'd get rid of a damaged one, just like I do my cars and motorcycles after a mishap.

I agree - the car analogy is more worn out right now than that Jazzmaster.

I don't mind a worn guitar that I've worn myself. I wouldn't damage it on purpose, but I'm also not going to restore the finish. I completely get the restoration thing. I Have a friend that is one of the better players I've met who LOVES to wear in his guitars...necks in particular....he's also the guy that keeps humidity control units in every single one of his cases (maybe...12+ that he regularly plays), puts the "fret guard" plastic that goes between the frets and the strings back in every time (after wiping the guard down with a cloth and wiping down the fretboard and strings to keep oil out), and doesn't take them out of the case unless he's going to play them and clean them before and after. He does this with road guitars as well as "price" pieces that he doesn't take anywhere. I can respect it...though it's not at all how I do business. I will fix a tuner when it's not functioning properly...and I've even gone so far as to have a jewelry shop refinish ALL the 22 carat gold coating on my 1981 "The Strat" gold hardware because I think that's an important characteristic of "The Strat" (the guitar that broke Fender-CBS! lol - literally!)...but I do not understand why a guy would want the body of a worn guitar like that.



I don't know about this. Ask Eddie Van Halen what he thinks. He seemed to believe (still believe) that without modifying the shape and physical characteristics of his guitars and even hand-wiring his pickups (look at his Explorer...with the arm-to-arm tensioner bolt that he believes lowers his natural tone for depth) he could not produce the tone that he can produce. Is it right? Hell I don't know...but I don't think it is a matter of him "not appreciating the value" of his guitars or just not taking care of them...I think, whether right or wrong, he is doing the exact opposite...and history will tell us that his guitars have definitely not depreciated in value. Plus he is a pretty alright guitar player.

I just think you roll with what you roll with. I like my beat up old "The Strat" - I like my 2009 Sparkling clean Les Paul. I like both of them more than the other for certain applications...and I'll never refinish the Strat, nor will I jam a screwdriver into the Les Paul.

...Speaking of EVH, I LOVE my MusicMan EVH that has the tool-worn neck back - they used laser etching to identify how his Frankenstrat neck had worn down and re-tooled the new necks to that exact same size. It's AMAZING how easily your hand moves around on that neck, whether you play like Eddie or Stevie or Tiny Tim...it just feels GOOD.

Good question Raymack - great thread! A little bit of love, a little bit of anger! I APPROVE! Have fun and jam on my man! If you ever need anything you are in the right place, hope your travel is breaking your much fruitfulness!

If you have a polyester-finish on your strat, you will NEVER wear it off! Except when you play for 40 years, every day, maybe! Only the nitro-finishes will wear off after a while, and they wear off more evenly and smoother. The polyester ones "chip-off".
I wasn't a big fan of road worn guitars either... untill I tried one. they feel awesome, and they resonate fantastic! But I guess it's mailly because of the worn-off neck and the very thin nitro finish.