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Post subject: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:07 pm
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hi.
few weeks ago i rescued from destruction this almost-dead (zombie?) stratocaster that i later found out is from 1964 or 1968 (neckplate with "L" serial mumber, possibly pre-CBS, neck serial number from 1968... what does that mean?), it seems that the poor thing was outdoors under rain and sunlight. the neck is perfectly straight, the hardware is in good condition and two pickups work fine, the bottom part of the body is damaged by water and other nasty stuff.

I have some experience in building electric guitars (not a luthier though). for me this is a great opportunity to restore as close as possible the original state of the guitar, but i need some advice from fender on what replacement parts to use, pots, the nut, (other than getting vintage gear on ebay), color catalog from the date etc. ( i´m in Mexico!).

Secondly i´d like some advice on getting an authenticity certificate from fender. is this possible? who should i get in contact with?

thanx!


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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:04 pm
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If the neck has the large headstock with the Fender/Schaller "F" tuners, the instrument is likely a '68. If it's the small headstock with single-line Kluson Deluxe tuners then the guitar is pre-1966. Serial-number ranges are ambiguous when dating a Strat due to overlapping eras and that pesky CBS takeover. The "L" serial numbers seem to have been discontinued sometime in 1966.

HTH

Arjay

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Last edited by Retroverbial on Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:06 pm
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Pictures of this find would be great

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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:28 pm
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By idddent at 2012-08-24

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By idddent at 2012-08-24

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By idddent at 2012-08-24



as you can see this soldier is in VERY bad shape. no headstock decal, nitrocellulose peeling off, etc.
fender "F" tuners, big headstock, serial number, no skunk stripe, all from 68, serial number on neck plate 5 digit "L" series, according to fender site from 64.

anyways, even if it doesn't worth a penny i'm really happy with this project.
cheers


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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:47 pm
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What you have here is a genuine by-God basket case!

The rosewood is de-laminating from the maple neck, the headstock is cracked, and the entire instrument seems to have been pieced together using a polyglot of Fender parts (BTW the tuners appear to have come from a Fender Mustang or Duo-Sonic). The serial number correlates to 1964 but the "F" neck plate was not introduced until 1966. Another Ripley's mystery. Saving this guitar will -- I believe -- rival any Biblical miracle.

Best of luck

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:58 pm
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Hard to tell from the pick of the neck plate, but the serial number style looks a little off. Is the first number a 4? if so it looks like a different style than what Fender used. And that number that looks like a 5 looks odd.

Hard to really tell from that pic though.


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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:03 pm
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Oh the inhumanity of it all!!!

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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:40 am
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* UPDATE *

looking closely at the paint job i noticed a few things and came to de conclusion that it wasn't the original color so i took a big breath, tested with paint remover on the pick up cavities and the neck pocket... found out this:

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it was either black or sunburst

another big breath...

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no more big breaths... bad fumes

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I'm starting to feel like an actual surgeon, bloody gloves and all.

lukily the human being that did the refinish in red left most of the original yellow stain and sealer... good!


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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:04 am
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Wow! you really got your work cut out for ya.


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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:14 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
... using a polyglot of Fender parts (BTW the tuners appear to have come from a Fender Mustang or Duo-Sonic).


Maybe it's a Mustang neck ... double check the scale length to make sure it works on a Strat body. Edit: I take that back. Of course that neck code indicates it's a late 60s/early 70s Strat (the first 22 = Strat).

It deserves a rebuild. Restoration underway!

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Last edited by orvilleowner on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:31 am
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orvilleowner wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
... using a polyglot of Fender parts (BTW the tuners appear to have come from a Fender Mustang or Duo-Sonic).


Maybe it's a Mustang neck ... double check the scale length to make sure it works on a Strat body.

It deserves a rebuild. Restoration underway!


great idea!

checked... good ol' 25.5"


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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:36 am
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I'm curious as to those tuners, from the pics I don't see telltale signs of the previous tuners, that is indentation marks from the original tuners, which I believe are of a larger body, so these should not be an exact retrofit unless..... :idea:

If you haven't yet taken any of the tuners off, I would, just to see what is revealed. If there are no marks other than from the current set, then I would try to find out if it was possible that Fender would have installed a set of those on a customer's request back in the sixties....
I find that plausible if not perhaps likely but why not... :?: :idea:

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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:59 am
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The flattened/squared ends of the pickup cavities started in the late '60s and continued throughout the '70s (before that the ends were round -- half circles). I haven't found a hard date for when CBS changed the pickup cavities but it's definitely not a pre-CBS body.

Alder and 4 neck screws put the body as pre-'72.


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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:06 am
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53magnatone wrote:
I'm curious as to those tuners, from the pics I don't see telltale signs of the previous tuners, that is indentation marks from the original tuners, which I believe are of a larger body, so these should not be an exact retrofit unless..... :idea:

If you haven't yet taken any of the tuners off, I would, just to see what is revealed. If there are no marks other than from the current set, then I would try to find out if it was possible that Fender would have installed a set of those on a customer's request back in the sixties....
I find that plausible if not perhaps likely but why not... :?: :idea:


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As you can see, these tuners use two screws in "diagonal" each, BUT there's only one extra hole between the third and fourth tuner hole... I have no idea what this means.
The more I found out about this guitar, the more questions i have! LOL


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Post subject: Re: '64 strat restoration - authentication
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:15 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
The flattened/squared ends of the pickup cavities started in the late '60s and continued throughout the '70s (before that the ends were round -- half circles). I haven't found a hard date for when CBS changed the pickup cavities but it's definitely not a pre-CBS body.

Alder and 4 neck screws put the body as pre-'72.


Thanx! my first guess was that it was a '64 just by looking at the neck plate, but everything else indicates that is a '68. post-CBS transition period maybe?


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