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Post subject: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:12 am
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Hi all,

A good way to estimate the number of guitars which have been produced during the period 82-86 would be to use the serial numbers of the Dan Smith strats we have and see who has the largest number. Given that the first number corresponds to the year (i.e. E2 for 1982, E3 for 1983), we will have a fair overview of what has been produced.

What I do not know is if there is a numbering for the strats, a
numbering for the 62 reissues, 1 numbering for the Precision basses, etc....
If this is not the case, the higher serial number we get will be only an upper limit of the number of Dan Smith produced.

To start the game, my strat has number E203814 meaning that at least 3814 guitars (Dan smith ?) have been produced in 1982.


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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:23 am
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Umm...There seems to be a general misconception here about the "Dan Smith" Stratocasters...the term only refers to those transition models, where the headstock got smaller, and the four bolt neck reappears but it still has the older CBS large headstock logo on it. It does not include the two knob versions or later guitars.

The Dan Smith models were only made from December 81-83 and had the following specs:
One Piece Maple neck (two piece for rosewood)
Small headstock
Large Black Fender Logo
Chrome plated Fender "F" Tuning keys with the "F" stamp on the back
4 bolt neck mounting
Truss Rod adjustment at the body end of the neck
chrome plate die cast bridge saddles
Triple ply white pickguard with 11 mounting screws
3 Single coil pickups with Flush Poles
Deeply contoured Alder body
Polyeurethan finish with polyester undercoat.

This information is straight from A.R. Dushossoir's Book the Fender Stratocaster (pg 25-26) and there is also a photo of a "Smith Strat".

So ONLY those "Revised Standard" models are consider "Smith Strats" so lets make sure you have the facts straight before folks start throwing serial numbers out there...Smith Strats DO NOT include the US Vintage Reissues Strats.

Yes these guitars were produced while Smith was there, but are not considered "Smith Strats"!

T2

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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:56 am
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I agree with T2 - I only consider that one model to be a "Smith Strat"; while Dan Smith did design the 1983 2-knob models I prefer to call them "CBS Standards" to differentiate them from both the "Smith Strat" (which Fender did officially call the "Standard Stratocaster") and the later MIJ and MIM Standard Strats produced since FMIC took ownership.

pfr777 - actually you still couldn't use your idea to see how many Smith Strats were made during their brief lifetime (December 1981 through the end of 1982 and on into early 1983 before the CBS Standards came out) because Fender did not have separate serial number counts for each model. The serial numbers were used on multiple Fender instruments, and they weren't necessarily ever used in order. Even if they had been used in order, your serial number of E203814 would mean that 3814 total Fender instruments were built to date when your Strat was built - which would include Strats, all 4 Tele models (as 1982 was the last year for the Custom, Deluxe, and Thinline), all 3 Lead models, 2 Bullet models, all Bass models, and anything that Fender was still making in 1982 that I'm forgetting (as I'm not sure when the Jazzmaster and Jaguar ended - somewhere between 1980 and 1982).


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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:18 pm
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Thanks for the detailed answer.
In my mind, the Smith Strats were all the strats which were built during end 81-86 and
were not reissues. Is there a nickname for a strat (non RI) with 3 knobs built in 1982-86 ? a Fullerton strat ?
Now, if the serial numbers were not given in ascending order (this would be very surprising, unless range of numbers would be given to the different models of guitars), my idea was a bad good idea...

If it happens that the serial numbers were following the ascending order, we could have an upper limit (although not very precise) on the amount of guitars built at a given year, and
an approximation of the daily production during the 82-86 years.

Pat


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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:18 am
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pfr777 wrote:
Thanks for the detailed answer.
In my mind, the Smith Strats were all the strats which were built during end 81-86 and
were not reissues. Is there a nickname for a strat (non RI) with 3 knobs built in 1982-86 ? a Fullerton strat ?
Now, if the serial numbers were not given in ascending order (this would be very surprising, unless range of numbers would be given to the different models of guitars), my idea was a bad good idea...

If it happens that the serial numbers were following the ascending order, we could have an upper limit (although not very precise) on the amount of guitars built at a given year, and
an approximation of the daily production during the 82-86 years.

Pat


Pat - the "Smith Strat" (as T2 and I call it) that was made from December 1981 until say maybe February 1983 was the only non-reissue 3-knob Strat built during that December 1981 to 1986 time frame.

Prior to about December 1981 they were building the big headstock, 3 bolt models (and those did continue into 1982, particularly lefties - CBS was likely using up parts), after say January-February 1983 they moved to the 2-knob Standards and the Elites.

CBS sold Fender to FMIC in early February 1985; FMIC quickly built out guitars from the remaining (completed probably no later than early March 1985) - and those that were not reissues would have been the 2-knob and the Elites.

There was no USA production from that point until FMIC got their first Corona factory up and running in late 1985 - there were only MIJ Fenders for that roughly 6-7 month period. Further, when the Corona factory did get up and running Fender only produced reissues for that first year or so. They then began producing the American Standards in late 1986 - they may have sold a few American Standards as a "soft launch" (they were showing the American Standards to their top dealers to gauge dealer opinions) but even then Fender really didn't do a full launch of the American Standard until January 1987 at the NAMM show.

Regarding the numbers themselves, it's pretty well known that Fender doesn't necessarily use them in order as I'm sure there are several workers doing neck finishes and they will each have a stack of decals at their workbench. Serial numbers are at best an approximation of dates, and in some eras that can be a much broader approximation than others. Unfortunately this late CBS era/start of the FMIC era is one of the times when there were a lot of anomalies on the serial numbers.


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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:16 pm
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Hi John C and T2,

I did not read carefully your first answers about Smith Strat.
It was already clearly stated in your posts. My apologies

Your last mail beautifully explains the end of the CBS period with the
transition from Fullerton and Corona.
It shows that even for events that are not that far behind, it is not simple to trace
the history. This is quite fascinating to look back in the history of Fender.

Thanks again for your detailed answer.

Anyway, I am quite happy with my little piece of Fender history : a 82' Smith Strat !!

Pat


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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:14 pm
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Don't tease us, post a picture! :)

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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:04 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Don't tease us, post a picture! :)



+1 we love pics here and if you really like Fender history there are some great books out there detailing thier history. Check out any good music store or Amazon and I agree with you, it has been an interesting history so far!

T2

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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:26 am
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Hi all

Thanks for the informative input, John C and T2. I happen to own an 82/83 Strat as described, thought you might like to see some pictures. This is my only Strat. It's all stock, it plays beautifully and I wouldn't ever consider changing anything. I bought it in 1986 for £300 off a friend. The E2 serial number can refer to 1982 or 1983, in fact the neck stamp is Feb 1983: one of the last of its kind!

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:12 pm
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Tom...Now THAT is a Smith Strat! Nice one, and even a Hardtail to boot! For 300 pounds that was a great score too!

Thanks for the Guitar Porn!

Enjoy playing that puppy!

T2

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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:29 am
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T2Stratman wrote:
Tom...Now THAT is a Smith Strat! Nice one, and even a Hardtail to boot! For 300 pounds that was a great score too!

Thanks for the Guitar Porn!

Enjoy playing that puppy!

T2


Cheers, T2. The guy I bought it off had been given it new as a gift by his (absent) father and had never learned to play. What a waste, I thought, and finally persuaded him to sell it to me. It was in mint condition, but I think the price was a fair one for the time.


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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:24 pm
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My 82 is stamped E215092.



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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:44 am
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I'm glad I finally bounced back to this thread - very nice Smith Strats there Tom and Gator!


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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:31 am
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Gator, you put me to shame! Your Strat looks like new! I'm going to have to give mine a thorough clean-up now (then maybe take some new pics outdoors in better light).


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Post subject: Re: How many Dan Smith Strats (82-86) have been produced ?
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:13 pm
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Tom,
Your Smith looks beautiful. My buddy has the same guitar, we purchased ours on the same day at a Guitar center in Chicago. Also, my guitar sat in its case for 20 years.


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