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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:32 am
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Time Warp wrote:
Is this Signature (looks like) Denny L,,,, Denny Laine by any chance?

I'm pretty green so this may be a silly question but these are 1962 reissue's ? This one's sunburst and it may not mean anything other than just the color but the ones I've seen so far from the years you mentioned 86-87 all have white pick guards, this one has a black pick guard and black backplate. I took the neck off hoping to get a month and date but couldn't tell by the numbers given.

Not sure if it's true and I'm sure the fender forum here would know best but since you gave me the info on the E4 serial numbers I've seen some information saying that those were indeed the first ones made in the (then) new plant, only a few per day were made.

Thanks for that info on the E4's....

Image


I'm not sure who the Denny L. who signed off on your Strat - maybe Rob S. knew him and will pop in with some more info - but I'm almost positive it wasn't the musician Denny Laine.

That is definitely an early Strat Plus from 1987 - it even has that first version of the Wilkinson nut that was only used on the Plus in 1987 (it was later used again on the first of the Jeff Beck Signature Strats because Jeff prefers that style and still uses it on his personal guitars); it is not a '62 Reissue as they would have vintage styling, hardware, and of course only have a rosewood fingerboard (as Fender had stopped making maple fingerboard guitars in 1959 and didn't bring them back until more like 1965/66).

By the time the Strat Pluses were introduced Fender had pretty much ramped their production back up. The production number quote I read in "The Stratocaster Chronicles" was that in October 1985 their production was as low as 7 instruments a day, but 18 months later they were making 150 per day. Since the Strat Plus wasn't even introduced until sometime in 1987 I'm sure Fender was well above 7 per day but likely hadn't gotten to that 150 level (which if that quote is correct than they would have hit 150 by March 1988).

Regarding the black pickguard and backplate - probably a previous owner replaced them at some point. What kind of pickups does your guitar have? A Strat Plus should have Lace Sensors on it and if the logos are still visible they should have "Fender Lace Sensor" printed in gold lettering. The printing on the early Lace Sensors wore off pretty easily; even if the printing has worn off Lace Sensors would have plain white covers and do not have exposed polepieces.


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:28 am
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John C wrote:
[quote="Time Warp" What kind of pickups does your guitar have? A Strat Plus should have Lace Sensors on it and if the logos are still visible they should have "Fender Lace Sensor" printed in gold lettering. The printing on the early Lace Sensors wore off pretty easily; even if the printing has worn off Lace Sensors would have plain white covers and do not have exposed polepieces.


A friend of mine came over this afternoon, He said the year and month is June 87.. I showed him the signature by what I thought was Danny C and he laughed and said WOW that's not a C but a G and that D is definitely a Danny Gatton D and that it would make a little more sense to him if it was a tele. He also said the other initial I thought was an Lm looked more like a Ym to him.

I had no idea who Danny Gatton was but does this sound right ? Would he have been around the Fender facility at that time? I compared this D with ones by Danny Gatton and there's some similarity but

Here's a picture of the pickups.

Image


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:39 am
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Time Warp wrote:
John C wrote:
[quote="Time Warp" What kind of pickups does your guitar have? A Strat Plus should have Lace Sensors on it and if the logos are still visible they should have "Fender Lace Sensor" printed in gold lettering. The printing on the early Lace Sensors wore off pretty easily; even if the printing has worn off Lace Sensors would have plain white covers and do not have exposed polepieces.


A friend of mine came over this afternoon, He said the year and month is June 87.. I showed him the signature by what I thought was Danny C and he laughed and said WOW that's not a C but a G and that D is definitely a Danny Gatton D and that it would make a little more sense to him if it was a tele. He also said the other initial I thought was an Lm looked more like a Ym to him.

I had no idea who Danny Gatton was but does this sound right ? Would he have been around the Fender facility at that time? I compared this D with ones by Danny Gatton and there's some similarity but



The late Danny Gatton was a great Tele player who sadly took his own life when his career didn't turn out the way he wanted. I still remember seeing him on Austin City Limits back in the 1980s - every bit as jaw dropping as Eric Johnson's set; I think you can find bits and pieces of that on you tube. I suspect that the signatures on your Strat are just from a Fender employee named Danny who was inspecting bodies and necks that day; I don't think Fender would have had a famous musician signing a guitar in the inspector's spots; they would have autographed the guitar on the body, back of the headstock, or somewhere visible.

On to the pickups - it appears that along with the pickguard the pickups have been replaced. As I mentioned a Strat Plus should have Lace Sensors; those look like regular pickups. That was not uncommon for someone to replace the Lace Sensors; they can be a love/hate kind of sound.


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:19 pm
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Hi,

I'm really interested in this post... Only just found it .. Hi everyone..

I have a Strat Plus, a sort of metallic wine red ... with serial number E 4XX ....

It has the roller nut, lace pickups and locking pegs, but it does not appear to have a TBX on it as it does not have a center detente on either of the tone controls .. is this normal ?

Oh and it doesn't appear to have a Trem Setter, which I believe this model has ..
Without taking the neck off I believe it to be a 1987 model ..

Thanks in advance for any feedback


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:41 pm
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gooseyone wrote:
Hi,

I'm really interested in this post... Only just found it .. Hi everyone..

I have a Strat Plus, a sort of metallic wine red ... with serial number E 4XX ....

It has the roller nut, lace pickups and locking pegs, but it does not appear to have a TBX on it as it does not have a center detente on either of the tone controls .. is this normal ?

Oh and it doesn't appear to have a Trem Setter, which I believe this model has ..
Without taking the neck off I believe it to be a 1987 model ..

Thanks in advance for any feedback



Xhefri's the man on these - it appears his day job has prevented him from being around much lately so I'll take a crack at this. Have you taken the pickguard off to verify that it has a regular tone pot? Sometimes the older TBXs didn't have much of a detent compared to some of the later ones.

Also I believe the earliest Stat Pluses didn't have the Trem Setter.

Check out Xhefri's website on these:

http://www.xhefriguitars.com/


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:56 pm
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John C wrote:
it appears his day job has prevented him from being around much lately so I'll take a crack at this.

You got that right John C! I am held up in a motel in Flagstaff right now singing that song by Joe Walsh: "I live in hotels, and tear out the walls. I have accountants pay for it all...." Hardly had time to breath the last three months and just popped in the Forum just now for a few minutes. Will be home in about 10 more days and many more 100 miles..... Thanks for covering! LOL! besides, you know more than I!

PS: Some TBXs get worn with age and you can't feel the detent. I am 92.5% sure it has the TBX. Sometimes by lifting up or slightly pushing down on the knob and turning it slowly, you can feel the detent when worn. Also the trimsetters started showing up in early or mid-1989, if I remember right.

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:05 am
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Hi,

Thanks for the feedback, I've lifted the scratch plate and it has revealed that there isn't a TBX network on the lower tone control ... I thought it was strange when I bought the guitar back in '92 .. But it played so well, I now remember changing the roller nut for the one that would take up to a 56 string, this I must have done way back in '94/'95

I've attached some photos ..

Image

Image

Image

Once again many thanks


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:01 am
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gooseyone wrote:

I've attached some photos ..

Image

Wow, this guitar has Japanese wiring. The DM-50 switch, the pots, the green cap, are all Japanese. Wonder what is going on with this? All the Plus', even the very earliest, had USA parts inside. Even the exports. The Lace Sensors are USA made but someone swapped out the rest with Japanese parts....really odd! :shock:

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:56 am
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Hi,

Thanks for the feed back on my guitar ... I too am now confused ... The wiring seemed to be neat and tidy ... And it was a swimming pool body ...

Don't know what to think now ... But it sounds nice ... I guess that's all that counts .. I have no plans to sell it ...

Should I consider returning it or making it normal ?

Thanks again for your advised input ...


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:12 am
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Being an E4 Plus it would be good to keep your eye open for a USA early Plus wiring setup, just to take it back to original. How this happened is really freak. I have a whole box of DM-50 switches that I have changed out of MIJ Strats, and those pots are the early, bigger, Japanese pots that were used in the 1980s. Later, in the 1990s, they moved over to the smaller pots and the plastic encased DM-50 switches. but if you plan on keeping the guitar for ever, just leave it alone. Those pots and switch will not make any big difference on the sound, except your missing the TBX flair, which can shape the tone a little more than a standard tone control. Nice guitar!

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:27 am
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Many thanks Xhefri and John C.... For your expert input .... It really is appreciated ... It does seem a bit strange, but it sounds nice .. I've convinced myself over the years that it was probably a pre-production guitar ...

I really feel privileged to own it ..

:D


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:16 pm
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You are welcome. About the pre-production idea. I think that is a no-go. I have been researching these for years and own a few of the very first production models as early as mid 87. A Plus would have never come from the factory with MIJ parts. In fact when Fender Japan was first set up with the Fugi Gen Gakki company, Fender USA sent some USA parts to help them start production (mostly electronics) and not Fender Japan sending parts to help the USA models get started.

Below you will see very early 1987 Plus TBX and a wiring system. Note the old resistor on the TBX and then the old pat pending on the back of the pickups. This wiring setup was part of the first production as even the pickups have hand-marked numbers on the ends of the pickups.

Image
Image
Image
Image

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Last edited by Xhefri on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:22 am
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Good Morning Xhefri,

Thanks for the photos, I can quite clearly see the difference ... I'm going to order some new strings over the next day or so ... So .. I'll take the scratch guard off and take some more detailed pictures for you to have a look at ... I will then take your advice as to which is the best way to move forward... if you think the guitar could do with putting back to standard.. I must admit that many years ago when I was sat with the guitar on my lap in A1 Music in Manchester, I wondered if there was something wrong with it.. I'd done my research and thought this was just an early model ... I had no idea that it had been messed with as it sounded so nice ...

Many thanks


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:56 am
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Good Day Xhefri,

I've taken these photos for you to look at .. I guess that now I'm really wanting to return the guitar to it's original state ...

Image


Image

Image

Image

Your input is much appreciated ...


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:50 pm
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Yep, Japanese pots. I have a bunch of those as well and they all start with an "M" on them. Also poor soldering to boot. Definitely changed. I might have an extra harness. Email me in a week or so after I get back home. At least the pickups are original!

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