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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:29 am
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Thank you for that info also! I had been trying to figure out how to use the TBX ..I knew I had one from reading forum posts..but that was as far as I had gotten! You people are wonderful!

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:37 am
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xhefri - I always thought the "X" in the "TBX" was for "expander", but "cut" works just as well. I read some really nice columns in Premier Guitar back in 2010 that went into the TBX in detail - the second pot that cuts the bass is a 1mg pot. I don't have those magazines hanging around any more, but I found the articles on-line for those interested.

Part 1 describes the TBX: http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2010/Oct/The_Fender_TBX_Tone_Control_Part_1.aspx/

Part 2 is some mods for the TBX: http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2010/Nov/The_Fender_TBX_Tone_Control_Mod_Part_2.aspx


These go back to the Strat and Tele Elites of 1983/84 (as does the active mid boost, but the version on the Elites was the 12.5 db boost; Clapton wanted more boost so they doubled it to 25 db when his signature came out).


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:21 am
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John C wrote:
xhefri - I always thought the "X" in the "TBX" was for "expander", but "cut" works just as well.

Hey John, I just stole that description from some of the paperwork I had from Fender on the TBX about the Strat Plus. When I think "Expander," I think of the active systems used by EMG like on the older Gilmore set-ups. I watch eBay adds and so often people think the TBX does something super-duper, expanding, compressing, boosting—something! :lol: :lol: :lol: Like you mentioned, a stack set of pots 1 meg and a 500 k (or a 250k I think) with a resistor and a cap. Cuts both bass and treble depending one which direction you go. I tun mine on 5 to 10. Sometimes 10 if I want more of a Tele sound in the bridge.

Here is from Guitar Electronics:

"What is a Fender TBX tone control and how does it work? Some Fender guitars come equipped with a special pot called a TBX Tone Control T (treble) B (bass) X (Cut) that cuts either treble or bass instead of a tone pot that cuts treble frequencies only. This is done with a ganged 500K-1M ohm control pot that is wired to work as a low-pass filter in one direction and a high-pass filter in the opposite direction. A center detent in the middle position is provided for the off or "flat" position. Although Fender altered their Start tone configuration to have the TBX control the middle and bridge pickups, it can be also be wired as a master treble/bass control. The TBX can also be used in place of any standard tone control on any guitar."

Check out the 2nd picture. This is a TBX off a very early (Sept, 87) Strat Plus. I dig the resistor! A monster. If you look at the first pict you will see a TBX of a 1990s Plus. Most look this way now.

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:31 am
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Arnold Layne wrote:
thanks for the info xhefri. I'm quite happy with the purchase. She cleaned up really nice. Pretty cool with the whole Fender history, and to have John Cruz, and Oscar Pallares having something to do with this guitar is very cool in my book.



Arnold. Please share the exact model, year & featues of your Strat.
What about the pickups?
Is your Strat a Plus series without Lace Sensors?
or the Standard Strat with Plus Series features?
or no Plus anything?

Thanks. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:11 am
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TS

It is an American Standard.


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:09 am
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It's just an American Standard, everything seems to be stock the way it was in 1988.

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:26 am
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Xhefri wrote:
John C wrote:
xhefri - I always thought the "X" in the "TBX" was for "expander", but "cut" works just as well.

Hey John, I just stole that description from some of the paperwork I had from Fender on the TBX about the Strat Plus. When I think "Expander," I think of the active systems used by EMG like on the older Gilmore set-ups.


Well if you got it from Fender then I have been calling it the wrong thing for all these decades - never too old to learn I always say. :lol:

Just for kicks I googled "Stratocaster Elite" and found a pdf of the orginial owners manual for them - it just calls it a "TBXTM Tone Control (Pat. pending)" - no full name given in 1983, just the brief explanation of how it works: "The TBXTM Control has a center detent position that gives you the standard Fender sound. By rotating the control clockwise, you will notice increased presence and brightness. Rotating the control from the detent position, counterclockwise, it works like a normal tone control."


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:09 am
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I can't remember, but was the Elite an active system! I know on the EC Strats the TBX works somewhat different than on a plus. In an active system I think it is more of an "expander" in function. What do you think about it?

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:15 am
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Elites were active. My 1983 Elite was and had a TBX that behaved more like an expander or booster than the TBX on my Plus Deluxe.


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:26 pm
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Each of the last three of my Stratopartster builds have TBX tone control(s).
Depending on the pickups it actually allows me to dial in the amount of treble or bass dependent on which pup configuration I'm switched into. While at the same time each one of the 3 Stratopartsters retain their own characteristic sound...

After reading about the TBX in Premier, I was intrigued enough to experiment by replacing both tone pots in my 1st Stratopartster I Build..." The Black and the Red " Strat.
Since that worked out quite well and I'm still dialing it in depending on the style of music....
They most definitely allow more versatility from 3 SC's but work equally well in an HSS set up as the other two Stratopartster builds have proven. ( these two are temporarily apart as I wasn't quite happy with the neck finish and decided it could be much better...)
One of these days I will have to upload a sound clip to this Forum....Should be fairly simple from a G4 Mac with Garage Band.

Nice Find on this Strat and enjoy the discovery of it's sounds... 8)

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:52 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
I can't remember, but was the Elite an active system! I know on the EC Strats the TBX works somewhat different than on a plus. In an active system I think it is more of an "expander" in function. What do you think about it?


They used the TBX, but you are correct that the TBX had several iterations before they settled on the one used on the Pluses and the American Standards and the ones in the Elites likely did not have the same exact specs. I suppose the TBX would function more like an EMG active expander functions in that case.


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:05 pm
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Getting ready to board a plane to Cincinnati. I have looked at some of those TBX mods as they intrigued me. I know on my EC Strat it is more dynamic and the lower tone control kicks in the booster-rockets! Love that Strat, not only in tone but the neck is really comfortable.

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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:47 pm
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John C wrote:
American Standard: 22 frets, 3 knobs, traditional metal angled output jack, 2-point trem
It is also most likely that the guitar is an American Standard built between the fall of 1986 and the middle of 1988. Not very many of the CBS-era Standards wound up with "E4xxxxx" serial numbers; while some exist, most of the CBS Standards wound up with "E3xxxxxx" numbers in both 1983 and 1984.


John C, My Made in USA 3 knob Stratocaster has the E4xxxxx serial number you mentioned with E443953. I too tried the Fender serial number lookup tool and got the sometime between 1984-1988.

Are these really only bringing $600. Before I read him saying $550-600 I thought $1,000-$1,500........Are we talking about different guitars or are they just that inexpensive? I was wanting to post it for sale but if they're only bringing $600 I couldn't afford to sell it lol.


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:30 pm
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Time Warp wrote:
John C, My Made in USA 3 knob Stratocaster has the E4xxxxx serial number you mentioned with E443953. I too tried the Fender serial number lookup tool and got the sometime between 1984-1988.

Are these really only bringing $600. Before I read him saying $550-600 I thought $1,000-$1,500........Are we talking about different guitars or are they just that inexpensive? I was wanting to post it for sale but if they're only bringing $600 I couldn't afford to sell it lol.


I used to see these first-year American Standards at dealers on gBase for that $1,000 to $1,500 range a few years ago, but I have no idea if these dealers ever got that much for them and used/vintage guitar prices have been in free-fall for a while. I also think that $600 is pretty low for one of these - as we have said in this thread an American Standard with an E4xxxxx number would have been made during the first 18 months or so production (call it October 1986 to mid 1988).


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Post subject: Re: 1984/88 strat...Which is it then?
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:59 pm
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Is this Signature (looks like) Denny L,,,, Denny Laine by any chance?

I'm pretty green so this may be a silly question but these are 1962 reissue's ? This one's sunburst and it may not mean anything other than just the color but the ones I've seen so far from the years you mentioned 86-87 all have white pick guards, this one has a black pick guard and black backplate. I took the neck off hoping to get a month and date but couldn't tell by the numbers given.

Not sure if it's true and I'm sure the fender forum here would know best but since you gave me the info on the E4 serial numbers I've seen some information saying that those were indeed the first ones made in the (then) new plant, only a few per day were made.

Thanks for that info on the E4's....

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