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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:20 am
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Smokin' Frets wrote:
Honestly, I've been asking myself this question for a long time.

Why would anybody want to have those modern standard tuners, where you have the pointy string ends poking out????

Why were they invented in the first place??? Cost cutting purposes??

I hate those things and think about replacing the few I have with Kluson Vintage tuners.

Well, I have an American Deluxe with locking tuners now and hardly any experience with them, but I can already say that I don't like them for the same reason!

Either you have those needle-like string ends poking out or you have those absurd tingle-tangle-rolled-string ends dingeling around on your neck! :(

Opposite to that, you have those nice slotted tuner heads on the vintage tuners. Stick in the string and the pointy-pokey-ends are GONE!
OK, you gotta cut the strings off to get the proper length, but show me ONE guitarist who doesn't have a pair of small combi-plyers (grip, squeeze and clip off) in his case anyway??????
Especially when you play Floyd Rose systems as well.

I herewith PROMISE, that I will NEVER buy a Fender guitar again if it doesn't have VINTAGE TUNERS!!!
What did you guys from Fender THINK, when you invented/took over those standard crap tuners???

Sorry 'bout the rant-like post, I don't mean to be rude, but these standard tuners have been annoying me since I had my first experience with vintage tuners on my MiJ Iron Maiden Signature strat in the 90s.

Hey, dear Fender team, wake up! Almost EVERY guitarist SCREAMS "VINTAGE", so put those vintage tuners on EVERY strat which has standards right now. They're timeless and look good on both, relic and new strats!

Even though I don't like the locking tuners either .... I see the point of tuning stability. :wink:
With a little effort you can lock the strings AFTER(!) cutting them off, so that the end will not poke out of the tuner head.


Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???

Why?
Less hassle
Like keeping things vintage original
Does not like change
Likes to look important on stage
Don't have to buy new ones
Don't have to uninstall and refit new ones
Don't have to buy a new set of strings
Likes to play untuned guitars and blame the guitar for bad sound
Likes Fender Factory installed products

Can you name a few more reasons :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:36 am
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Toppscore wrote:

Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???

Why?
Less hassle
Like keeping things vintage original
Does not like change
Likes to look important on stage
Don't have to buy new ones
Don't have to uninstall and refit new ones
Don't have to buy a new set of strings
Likes to play untuned guitars and blame the guitar for bad sound
Likes Fender Factory installed products

Can you name a few more reasons :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Toppscore 8)


OK, I surrender! :lol:
And no, I can't name ANY reason for wanting standard tuners. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:32 am
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Toppscore wrote:
Likes to play untuned guitars and blame the guitar for bad sound

Oh, puh-lease ....
:roll:
So you're saying a Kluson type holds the guitar in tune better than the sealed type then? Am I reading you correctly? If that's the case then please show us some data to back that up or at least amaze us by sharing the logic behind the statement.

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:49 am
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I cut them two posts higher, insert or though post types let them hang out 10mm, use the wrap one above one below hole, two posts higher will leave you with about 3-4 winds using pressure and a winder which gives a nice balanced pull on the post. I must agree with BMWKTM, I have simply tightened post nuts by hand in between guitar set ups and if a post is cutting your strings it must have a sharp piece on it somewhere... If its a though hole post there's only upto 10mm hanging out. I suppose I used to cut myself often when I was learning to string guitars or before I could not live with dead strings ...... The frequency I change strings to keep my guitars sounding where I want them is not far off weekly, if I'm playing a few hours with a certain guitar. I see the value in locking tuners although I have found personally that a well set up guitar, tuned every other track, and fresh strings every other week or really every 3-4 hours hard playing, renders everything else simply semantics. No locking tuners are going to do anything for me but add to this process which is involved enough as it is.....

JMHO

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:41 pm
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Locking tuners are actually easier and faster to change strings than non-locking of any type. Pull the string through the hole, nearly tight, lock down and tune. No need for measuring, and no need to have multiple winds. A half wind will work great. Much easier than measuring string length past the tuning peg, and worrying about number of turns, looping over then under, or any of that jazz. Zip, done. :)

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:53 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Likes to play untuned guitars
and blame the guitar for bad sound
Oh, puh-lease .... :roll:
So you're saying a Kluson type holds the guitar in tune better than the sealed type then? Am I reading you correctly? If that's the case then please show us some data to back that up or at least amaze us by sharing the logic behind the statement.


BMW ~ Did I say that? Oh, puh-lease .... :roll:
Reasons not to buy standard tuners?
I gave reasons to keep the standard tuners.
Reverse your thinking. Some musicians are "tone & tune & pitch" deaf :lol:
Have a cold one on me. I could use a cold dark Guiness in a cool pub, right now :lol:

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:12 pm
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ozrv wrote:
I cut them two posts higher, insert or though post types let them hang out 10mm, use the wrap one above one below hole, two posts higher will leave you with about 3-4 winds using pressure and a winder which gives a nice balanced pull on the post. I must agree with BMWKTM, I have simply tightened post nuts by hand in between guitar set ups and if a post is cutting your strings it must have a sharp piece on it somewhere... If its a though hole post there's only upto 10mm hanging out. I suppose I used to cut myself often when I was learning to string guitars or before I could not live with dead strings ...... The frequency I change strings to keep my guitars sounding where I want them is not far off weekly, if I'm playing a few hours with a certain guitar. I see the value in locking tuners although I have found personally that a well set up guitar, tuned every other track, and fresh strings every other week or really every 3-4 hours hard playing, renders everything else simply semantics. No locking tuners are going to do anything for me but add to this process which is involved enough as it is..... JMHO


Gotta say I got a Super Strat in and out of the pro-tech-repairs setup with my first
ever combo of both the locking bridge & locking nut. Have not broken a string yet.
Following is a couple of photos. Pretty cool to play around with and they do stay in tune.

Image

Image

Recently, I've purchased several guitars with special tuners:
2011 Fender American Standard Strat w/Fender locking tuners.
I've another Super Strat with locking Schaller tuners.
I've a 1990 Fender Stratocaster Plus Ultra with Schaller/Fender? locking tuners.
Interestingly, I've never given it a thought who made the 1990 Plus Ultra locking tuners.
I've another Super Strat with Fender locking tuners.

Also, to complicate matters, I have three Strats with Ping Tuners
three strats with Floyd Rose bridge termolo systems.
Honestly, it is a blast :shock: at times remembering to even think about what is what :lol:

Cool stuff. Thanks for sharing, guys. Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:55 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Locking tuners are actually easier and faster to change strings than non-locking of any type. Pull the string through the hole, nearly tight, lock down and tune. No need for measuring, and no need to have multiple winds. A half wind will work great. Much easier than measuring string length past the tuning peg, and worrying about number of turns, looping over then under, or any of that jazz. Zip, done. :)


Fair call when mid track in a gig and one breaks, i am a bit OCD with strings...I would always snip the excess regardless so to eyeball quickly two posts up cut and with a string winder make sure the first loop is above the string then just wind on the rest is not not much difference and i feel safe with it, i'm done in five mins or less with all 6 changed, Stretched and tuned. And their neat with even pull on the post!!! :| I suppose if i built a modern strat i would give them a go but i still would not use them as stated above unless mid gig so i cant see the advantage for me personally.

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:10 pm
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Considering your experience, I have the feeling that you could change your strings faster than I can mine. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:15 pm
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My OCD with fresh strings maybe.....Your amp knowledge spells more experience than me i must say...

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:57 pm
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ozrv wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Locking tuners are actually easier and faster to change strings than non-locking of any type. Pull the string through the hole, nearly tight, lock down and tune. No need for measuring, and no need to have multiple winds. A half wind will work great. Much easier than measuring string length past the tuning peg, and worrying about number of turns, looping over then under, or any of that jazz. Zip, done. :)


Fair call when mid track in a gig and one breaks, i am a bit OCD with strings...I would always snip the excess regardless so to eyeball quickly two posts up cut and with a string winder make sure the first loop is above the string then just wind on the rest is not not much difference and i feel safe with it, i'm done in five mins or less with all 6 changed, Stretched and tuned. And their neat with even pull on the post!!! :| I suppose if i built a modern strat i would give them a go but i still would not use them as stated above unless mid gig so i cant see the advantage for me personally.


Just have your roadee line up your guitars
and have the backup duplicates ready to go.
What are you paying the clowns for :?: :?: :?: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:00 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Considering your experience, I have the feeling that you could change your strings faster than I can mine. 8)



+1
Man, six strings in 300 seconds = one per/fifty seconds plus tuning.
You gotta go for the Olympics with that speed.
Just let your drummer to an "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" solo
for a day or two while you're busy changing to new "set" of strings :lol: :lol:

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:03 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
ozrv wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Locking tuners are actually easier and faster to change strings than non-locking of any type. Pull the string through the hole, nearly tight, lock down and tune. No need for measuring, and no need to have multiple winds. A half wind will work great. Much easier than measuring string length past the tuning peg, and worrying about number of turns, looping over then under, or any of that jazz. Zip, done. :)


Fair call when mid track in a gig and one breaks, i am a bit OCD with strings...I would always snip the excess regardless so to eyeball quickly two posts up cut and with a string winder make sure the first loop is above the string then just wind on the rest is not not much difference and i feel safe with it, i'm done in five mins or less with all 6 changed, Stretched and tuned. And their neat with even pull on the post!!! :| I suppose if i built a modern strat i would give them a go but i still would not use them as stated above unless mid gig so i cant see the advantage for me personally.


Just have your roadee line up your guitars
and have the backup duplicates ready to go.
What are you paying the clowns for :?: :?: :?: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Toppscore :)



:lol: 10 points for a comment with spirit....

Your getting a bit fantasy-Fiction now though huh..... :|

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:10 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Considering your experience, I have the feeling that you could change your strings faster than I can mine. 8)



+1
Man, six strings in 300 seconds = one per/fifty seconds plus tuning.
You gotta go for the Olympics with that speed.
Just let your drummer to an "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" solo
for a day or two while you're busy changing to new "set" of strings :lol: :lol:

Toppscore 8)


5 Mins would be under duress but yes on thinking again about it....50 Sec to thread snip wind stretch and tune quickly 3 times 1 string.....That's reasonable for sure....God bless string winders..... :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:58 pm
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Smokin' Frets wrote:
Amerigo wrote:

A solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Great.

Cheers

David


Dunno what kind of locking tuners you have but the ones on my Deluxe are just like I described. A horizontal hole in the shaft where you lead the strings through, lock with the wheel in the back and cut off the strings at the pole, resulting in a string end poking out.

So yes, my solution helps an EXISTING problem. Cut, retreat a little, lock, tune!




I wish I had your problems ... JEEZ!!!!!! :o :( :shock: :o :o :shock:


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