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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:56 pm
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CRGuitarMan wrote:
Well, gentlemen, no shortage of info in this thread and I enjoyed working my way through all four pages, something I rarely do when I stumble into a long and winding post. I'll admit that I am partial to Martian's postings, always a reasonable approach and a kind voice (I'm getting old and sometimes lean to sarcasm...) and always something interesting added to the conversation.

All of that said, I have never minded Fender's standard tuners. I use the Joe Walsh method of stringing my guitars and it seems the only times I manage to impale myself is when I am stringing a guitar and cut that nasty little high E string to get it out of the way, then stab myself as a result when threading another string though another hole. Amazing how much blood can come out of such a small hole in the end of your finger... :?

Cleaning your headstock with those little sharp ends sticking out is an annoyance, but as others have stated, I generally just super clean everything when the strings are off and don't let the guitars collect dust between changes. Last Christmas my daughter-in-law gave me a very cool detailing kit with lots of different small brushes, thinking I'd use it on my truck - NOT! I keep that thing with my guitars - it's awesome, even around sharp little wires!

I have a number of Fender guitars with vintage tuners, though most of my guitars have the newer standard tuners. I have a few guitars with locking tuners and I have to admit, it took me a while to get the hang of those darn things. I even broke one of the locking tuners on my Fender Showmaster Strat when it refused to release the string and I resorted to a screwdriver! What the heck? It has a screwdriver slot in the top, but it just snapped apart - my bad. I got lucky and found a replacement set on eBay.

Per the OP's original question: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???

I guess I'm just used to them after 48 years of playing and stringing guitars. And I do think they keep my guitars a bit better in tune than the vintage tuners - JMO!

Sorry if I got a bit long winded. :)


I truly thank you for your kind words, it's always nice to feel appreciated.

As to your post, "long winded"? Definitely not. See, yours and many others in this thread alone is what this site is truly all about. Like I said earlier, I was genuinely surprised how this thread took off the way it did. Yet, it just goes to show that there's lots of directly related guitar topics left to delve into, explore and share our personal 'mileage' about where hopefully, we all walk away with something new and valuable.

And yes, I and probably the vast majority reading this will wholeheartedly agree about how amazing it is that that much blood can come out of such a small hole in the end of a finger.

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:09 pm
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+1 for the vintage tuners.

They look better, way better and are easier to fit strings in. Why change something that is already perfect.

I like too the vintage bridge and saddles way more than the modern one.

Cheers!


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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:39 pm
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I feel so much better..all the times I thought I needed a transfusion I just thought I was a moron..and I find out its common..Thank you!

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:43 pm
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CRGuitarMan wrote:
Cleaning your headstock with those little sharp ends sticking out is an annoyance, but as others have stated, I generally just super clean everything when the strings are off and don't let the guitars collect dust between changes. Last Christmas my daughter-in-law gave me a very cool detailing kit with lots of different small brushes, thinking I'd use it on my truck - NOT! I keep that thing with my guitars - it's awesome, even around sharp little wires! :)


A good paint brush is an excellent way to clean those tight spots in between those string changes. A nice 2 inch natural fiber brush is in my cleaning kit too.

As to the original post. Would it be too much trouble to leave enough extra string sticking out of the peg hole to turn back into the hole on the other side with a pair of needle nose? Just a thought.

best regards

Arc

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:44 pm
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Monalst wrote:
I feel so much better..all the times I thought I needed a transfusion I just thought I was a moron..and I find out its common..Thank you!


Someone should write a song about bleeding on your guitar. I've poked my finger badly several times.

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:13 pm
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Arc-n-spark wrote:
Someone should write a song about bleeding on your guitar. I've poked my finger badly several times.
And it's especially bad if you don't notice right away that you are spewing blood all over your headstock and tuners - much harder to clean up than a little dust. :shock:

Of course, that IS one way to make a guitar feel like it's really yours!

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:56 am
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And guys: use disinfection if you cut your fingers. Those string ends aren't clean.

Cheers

David

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:01 am
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I find the vintage tuners easier to string and better at keeping the guitar in tune. I would install either vintage style or locking tuners on any guitar I purchase in the future.


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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:47 pm
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This is ridiculous. If you replace your modern tuners with vintage style ones better get your tools ready. Be prepared for added screw holes........unbelievable.


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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:55 pm
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BTW, I want the standard and locking tuners. They work great.


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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:45 pm
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Martian wrote:
auxsend wrote:
They prevent the guitar from going out of tune. Intonation of course, by definition, is very directly related.

You've already postulated this in other words. My question is, how so?


Yes, I am "For" locking tuners and I have many good things to say about them but I have never made that statement about them and I too would like to hear the logic behind it.

However ....

Martian wrote:

With locking tuners, there's an acquired finesse to them. See, if you tighten the tuner's locking disk too much, it can cut through the thinner, plain strings. With the wound strings, over tightening the disk can cut the string's winding to where the winding breaks apart and the string begins to unravel. With either scenario, obviously, the string is history. Conversely, if the locking disk isn't tightened enough, any string can slip due to increasing pull tension. So, a happy medium must be found which essentially is arrived at by hands-on repetition being the best teacher.

This is completely foreign to me. I have never experienced overtightening or undertightening issues. I tighten them with my fingers until they stop. They don't slip. They don't cut or damage my strings. If this really happens to other people then the only thing I can think of is perhaps on some tuners there's a slight mismatch between the ball and socket inside the post.

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:54 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Martian wrote:
auxsend wrote:
They prevent the guitar from going out of tune. Intonation of course, by definition, is very directly related.

You've already postulated this in other words. My question is, how so?


Yes, I am "For" locking tuners and I have many good things to say about them but I have never made that statement about them and I too would like to hear the logic behind it.

However ....

Martian wrote:

With locking tuners, there's an acquired finesse to them. See, if you tighten the tuner's locking disk too much, it can cut through the thinner, plain strings. With the wound strings, over tightening the disk can cut the string's winding to where the winding breaks apart and the string begins to unravel. With either scenario, obviously, the string is history. Conversely, if the locking disk isn't tightened enough, any string can slip due to increasing pull tension. So, a happy medium must be found which essentially is arrived at by hands-on repetition being the best teacher.

This is completely foreign to me. I have never experienced overtightening or undertightening issues. I tighten them with my fingers until they stop. They don't slip. They don't cut or damage my strings. If this really happens to other people then the only thing I can think of is perhaps on some tuners there's a slight mismatch between the ball and socket inside the post.


Here's a clear and classic example of what I (in part) always say: "YMMV".

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:22 am
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Strider wrote:
This is ridiculous. If you replace your modern tuners with vintage style ones better get your tools ready. Be prepared for added screw holes........unbelievable.


It's even more ridiculous and unbelievable that some people tend to comment without reading the whole thread! :roll:

Let me help you a little by quoting myself: :wink:

Smokin' Frets wrote:
4th and last: I actually think about exchanging all my tuners which are not vintage but as you might know (or probably not!), every change on a guitar which cannot be reversed without leaving drillholes reduces the value. That said, I will probably NOT exchange the tuners but as I said, in the future vintage tuners will be a criteria for purchase.


Let me add the following:
If the guitars with standard tuners would have been bought used and for a good price, I probably wouldn't hesitate to exchange tuners but my guitars with the standard tuners were not only bought NEW (there's only two strats left, one of which is a fantastic but fairly affordable Burns Cobra) but one of them (American Hot Rodded Texas Special) has a very rare Surf Pearl finish. The latter will stay UNTOUCHED and will be kept ALL ORIGINAL while I actually still think about replacing the tuners on the brand new 252.00 Euro Burns Cobra.

I wouldn't worry about value reduction on a cheap guitar like that and it would really be worth it, since the Cobra beats every Fender up to Mexican models. It's almost head to head with 2 of my 6 American Fenders (honestly!). So I wouldn't worry about few additional holes on the back of the Cobra's headstock.

I used to have 3 other American Strats with standard tuners but I've sold them already and don't miss them at all.

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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:14 am
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I never had a problem with them. They are fine.


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Post subject: Re: Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:14 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
perhaps on some tuners there's a slight mismatch between the ball and socket inside the post.


Possible. I'll try what Martian said and swap "B" and "high E" locking tuners next time I change strings. If the problem moves, it was the locking tuner.

Cheers

David

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