Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???

Smokin' Frets · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am **Posts:** 1247

Martian wrote:

Actually, I was NOT referring to you. Rather, I agree with virtually everything you've said. It was the subsequent posts of others which I found fascinating.

Oh, okay, I see. :oops:

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, Martian.

Martian · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:41 am

Smokin' Frets wrote:

Martian wrote:

Actually, I was NOT referring to you. Rather, I agree with virtually everything you've said. It was the subsequent posts of others which I found fascinating.

Oh, okay, I see. :oops:

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, Martian.

No problem!

Amerigo · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:47 am

Martian

Dee said it's a good idea to cut, retract a little and then lock the string. I have to disagree to this - especially the high E tuners have the tendency to let the string slip a little bit before locking it down.

So if you cut before you tune, you might lose that string completely. It's better to cut the string after you're sure its locked correctly.

Cheers

David

Martian · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:37 am

Amerigo wrote:

Martian

Dee said it's a good idea to cut, retract a little and then lock the string. I have to disagree to this - especially the high E tuners have the tendency to let the string slip a little bit before locking it down.

So if you cut before you tune, you might lose that string completely. It's better to cut the string after you're sure its locked correctly.

Cheers

David

That's why I used the word, "virtually". Be it locking tuners or the regular horizontal eyelet type, I NEVER cut a string before I tune. Rather, with locking tuners, I pull the string taut and tighten the lock. Next, I bend the slack at the eyelet up and across the top of the post. From there, I prestretch the string so if any slippage is going to happen, that's where it will happen; this "virtually" never happens to me any way. I then tune to pitch. Further, I do not do that Gibson "lock" over/under thing with the string and horizontal eyelet, non-locking tuners. I leave a fist worth of slack as I feed the string through the eyelet, bending the slack at the eyelet up and across the top of the post and the proceed to tighten the string, guiding the string wrap around the post, one snug wind underneath the one before it and prestretching once all the slack is gone but prior to the string being near pitch. In either scenario, with the now excess string hugging the side of the post and pointing upward, I then wiggle and pull on it, which is my last 'proof' that it shall not slip. Again, it virtually never does. It is after this that I cut the excess off, level with the top of the post. I've been doing this for decades now and have never had any problems for myself or for countless others I've done it for. YMMV.

Amerigo · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:43 am

Martian, we seem to agree on this. First tune, then cut.

Cheers

David

auxsend · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:53 am

This is truly the most bizarre rant I've read. That said, I completely disagree.

I think Locking tuners should be standard on every guitar made, period. They have a direct effect on intonation. Something that relates to actually playing the guitar.

If you are that insane about the string ends, which have nothing to do with the sound of the instrument, then I guess install vintage tuners on all of your guitars. No big deal really.

Martian · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:06 am

auxsend wrote:

This is truly the most bizarre rant I've read. That said, I completely disagree.

I think Locking tuners should be standard on every guitar made, period. They have a direct effect on intonation. Something that relates to actually playing the guitar.

If you are that insane about the string ends, which have nothing to do with the sound of the instrument, then I guess install vintage tuners on all of your guitars. No big deal really.

Please enlighten us as to how locking tuners have a direct effect on intonation.

auxsend · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:10 am

Martian wrote:

auxsend wrote:

This is truly the most bizarre rant I've read. That said, I completely disagree.

I think Locking tuners should be standard on every guitar made, period. They have a direct effect on intonation. Something that relates to actually playing the guitar.

If you are that insane about the string ends, which have nothing to do with the sound of the instrument, then I guess install vintage tuners on all of your guitars. No big deal really.

Please enlighten us as to how locking tuners have a direct effect on intonation.

They prevent the guitar from going out of tune. Intonation of course, by definition, is very directly related.

tbazzone · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:13 am

This I wanna hear.

Martian · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:18 am

auxsend wrote:

Martian wrote:

auxsend wrote:

This is truly the most bizarre rant I've read. That said, I completely disagree.

I think Locking tuners should be standard on every guitar made, period. They have a direct effect on intonation. Something that relates to actually playing the guitar.

If you are that insane about the string ends, which have nothing to do with the sound of the instrument, then I guess install vintage tuners on all of your guitars. No big deal really.

Please enlighten us as to how locking tuners have a direct effect on intonation.

They prevent the guitar from going out of tune. Intonation of course, by definition, is very directly related.

You've already postulated this in other words. My question is, how so?

AaronK · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:30 am

Back to the origional topic, I love standard Kluson style tuners, I love the look over standard Fender tuners and also, as stated, that the string ends get tucked away.

Does any of you Fender Kluson enthusiasts know what tuners Fender uses on thier guitars when they replicate origional Klusons, and also if origional Klusons would be a straight swap out for the stock ones.

Smokin' Frets · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am **Posts:** 1247

auxsend wrote:

This is truly the most bizarre rant I've read. That said, I completely disagree.

I think Locking tuners should be standard on every guitar made, period. They have a direct effect on intonation. Something that relates to actually playing the guitar.

If you are that insane about the string ends, which have nothing to do with the sound of the instrument, then I guess install vintage tuners on all of your guitars. No big deal really.

Well, first of all, before you call somebody insane or being insane about something, read the books, ok?
Intonation has nothing to do with locking tuners or vice versa.

2nd: please read posts entirely before commenting because I said that they're useful for tuning stability.

3rd: why should I NOT discuss features which don't directly affect the playing?
People discuss colors and body shapes. Why do they do that?? Are they INSANE about colors and sexy guitar shapes?? :roll:

I suggest you either discuss the topic intelligently and friendly or you better don't post anything at all.

4th and last: I actually think about exchanging all my tuners which are not vintage but as you might know (or probably not!), every change on a guitar which cannot be reversed without leaving drillholes reduces the value. That said, I will probably NOT exchange the tuners but as I said, in the future vintage tuners will be a criteria for purchase.

Smokin' Frets · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am **Posts:** 1247

Amerigo wrote:

Martian

Dee said it's a good idea to cut, retract a little and then lock the string. I have to disagree to this - especially the high E tuners have the tendency to let the string slip a little bit before locking it down.

So if you cut before you tune, you might lose that string completely. It's better to cut the string after you're sure its locked correctly.

Cheers

David

Hi Amerigo,

as I said, I have no experience with locking tuners yet. I haven't changed strings since I got my Deluxe.
If they have a tendency to slip before finally locking them, cutting before tuning would indeed be a problem. Fully agreed.

Up to now I thought, locking tuners lock! Immediately! :oops:

There was nothing like locking tuners when I started to play guitar, at least not that I know of. So I never bothered with them until now, 30 years later.

Smokin' Frets · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am **Posts:** 1247

AaronK wrote:

Back to the origional topic, I love standard Kluson style tuners, I love the look over standard Fender tuners and also, as stated, that the string ends get tucked away.

Does any of you Fender Kluson enthusiasts know what tuners Fender uses on thier guitars when they replicate origional Klusons, and also if origional Klusons would be a straight swap out for the stock ones.

I have no idea, who makes the Kluson type tuners, they're always just called Kluson type.

I have seen swapped tuners and the original Kluson ones were a perfect fit, including screw holes.

I've also seen Kluson type tuners on Fenders which had other holes for the screws but I don't know if these vintage tuners had been installed by Fender or if they were replacement vintage tuners.

shimmilou · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:51 am

The Kluson-type tuners are not a direct swap with the modern tuners. :idea:

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Why the heck would ANYBODY want those standard tuners???

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