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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:46 am
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WOW! I never imagined Satch using full 2-octave board electrics!

FYI here's another pic from the JS2400, Joe's first signature model to feature a full 2-octave fretboard.

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:59 am
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Hi chromeface: I bet the reason for the rails pickup at the neck is to make space for Satriani's plectrum. Which is another problem with smothering a 24 fret guitar in pickups.

The gentleman Toppscore bought his guitar from chose a very odd pairing of humbuckers. Yet even he seems to have found he needed somewhere for his right hand to go and so left the middle cavity empty, if I've correctly understood what TS wrote. One of the several reasons those HHH Les Paul Black Beauties didn't catch on in a big way, I suppose.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:01 am
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Martian wrote:
Ceri, thank you as always for your compliments.

Hey Martian: amongst many other things I'm remembering the pickup advice you gave to oldguy. Excellent recommendations, and a very happy player as a result! That's what forums are for. 8)

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:24 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Martian wrote:
Ceri, thank you as always for your compliments.

Hey Martian: amongst many other things I'm remembering the pickup advice you gave to oldguy. Excellent recommendations, and a very happy player as a result! That's what forums are for. 8)

Cheers - C


:D :D :D

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:31 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Hi chromeface: I bet the reason for the rails pickup at the neck is to make space for Satriani's plectrum. Which is another problem with smothering a 24 fret guitar in pickups.


Hi Ceri - I read an interview with Satch around the time this guitar was released. One of the reasons for the rail pickup was to get it closer to the spot where a normal pickup would be placed on a 22-fret guitar (under the sonic node). The other reason was he had already been using the DiMarzio rail pickups on a prototype 3 pickup JS guitar (instead of single coils he used 3 rail pickups).

As far a I know Joe only used that 3 pickup JS on an Experience Hendrix tour a few years ago; it's not in the pipeline for release.


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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:08 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Actually, I want distortion as part of the end result.
Hi again Toppscore. Don't want to bombard you over this, but just for the sake of the discussion... I think the Super Distortion 3 is the root of your problem. You started this thread complaining of not getting enough treble - and the SD3 is at the bottom of that. It's a pickup that is designed for one thing only: chugging away on muted low strings and advanced lickification in the form of single note runs up the dusty end of the fingerboard. Nuttin' else. It's just never going to sound good for anything other than shredding.
Toppscore wrote:
I have a guitar that has a single pickup, one humbucker at the bridge.
Exactly. That's what the SD3 is built for. Your problem is that none of these pickups really belong in this guitar. The Humbucker From Hell is designed to make a Les Paul sound as clean and trebly as possible - and so belongs nowhere near a gain-driven shred machine.
There's another issue that nobody's mentioned yet. Many guitars in widely different genres have just one pickup. The reason for having more pickups is to sense the string in different places and so produce different tones. However. Your guitar has a two octave / 24 fret neck. That immediately pushes the pickups closer together, reducing the tonal difference they can achieve.
In truth, there seems little reason to have more than two pickups on a 24 fret guitar, which appears to be the conclusion many players have come to:
Image
The only possible reason I can see for having three pickups on this sort of instrument is to do that HSH thang, which the likes of Steve Vai have made "as prevalent as fly crap" (as a great man has written :D ). And that's certainly what the builder of your guitar decided and why he routed the pickup cavities the way he did. Like HSH setups or not, that's what this guitar was built to do.
So to extend what Martian said, I think you need to start from the ground up. Remove the SD3 to a one-pickup metal guitar, save the Humbucker From Hell for a jazz flavoured Les Paul or similar and use the 12K GFS in the bridge position of an SSS Strat that you want to convert for powerful lead tones.
And then begin again and discover two well-matched humbuckers and a single-coil to go between them for this guitar.
I don't really know HSH setups so I can't advise on which pickups to go for. If it were me I'd go away and study the sets they put on HSH guitars, or better still I'd see if Mr Martian has some thoughts. I have the strangest instinct he doesn't really like HSH configs, and yet I also strongly suspect he knows what would work very well if that's what a guy was asking for. He's a gentleman who knows pickups!
By the way, Toppscore, I don't think you've told us what your guitar actually is? Care to show us the headstock, so's we can see what we're dealing with? Whatever; it's a mighty pretty blue burst flame maple top, so congrats on that. Cheers - C



Thanks, Everybody. Great stuff. Interesting.

This OP/Thread Green Super Strat is an Warmoth Stratocaster.
Came with a MIM single coil for the middle that was uninstalled.
I added the Guitar Fetish stacked 12k to compete with the two DeMarzio Humbeckers.
I am an easy person to experiment on things. Enjoy learning.

The 1990s Black Fender American Strat, modified to a single humbucker (pictured below)
is very new to me. I just got the guitar in and have not touched it. Need to get her
checked-out and set-up.


Image

Image


Following is information from the Seller:
Seymour Duncan Live Wire humbucker pickup (same pickup used by Jim Martin of Faith No More)
Active Electronics: Has ability to run two (2) 9-volt batteries (AMAZING sound) when both batteries used
Plays like it has a Floyd Rose on the guitar, but sounds like a regular Stratocaster
===============
1990s Fender American Stratocaster
Scalloped Neck
Single “H” Seymour Duncan Live Wire Pickup
Re-Fretted with 6100 Dunlop Frets
Active Electronics w/Two 9-Volt Batteries
Locking String Saddles
Vintage Locking Tremolo
Plays like it has a Floyd Rose on the guitar, but sounds like a regular Stratocaster
===============


Question: How does the Seymour Duncan Live Wire Humbucker
compare with the DeMarzio Super Distortion Humbucker :?: :?: :?:



Just to let you know, I'm totally willing to play and move around the pickups. I've purchased
other guitars with added custom pickups and was shipped the originals as well.
Meaning, I have extra pickups to spare (mostly single coil Fender Factory pickups).

1) I have an original Fender pick-guard loaded w/set of Dimarzio Injector pick-ups ($180)
2) I have a customized pickguard with ACTIVE EMG81tw (bridge) & EMG89r (neck)humbuckers
installed ($240) which are powered by a 9-volt battery under the pick-guard for Hard Rock.
Since these two EMG's are active, I can easily have them installed in the active Black "H" Strat.
Question: Can "ANY" humbucker or single coil work within an "ACTIVE" guitar set-up :?:
Or, are certain pickups "DESIGNED" to be dedicated "active" pickups or "not-active" pickups :?:


Anyway, between these two guitars, I can move the DeMarzio Super Distortion if that
is the big problem. I can trade it with the Seymour Duncan between the different guitars.
I am not committed to exactly one perfect way.

The "single H" guitar was purchased with Metal Rock Distortion in mind.
Can be altered, not problem.

This OP/Thread Green HSH guitar with the over-powering DeMarizo Super Distortion pickup
can easily have the Super Distortion removed and leave in the "Humbucker from Hell"
for a Les Paul sound. No problem there. Then get a better bridge humbucker to match
the Guitar Fetish middle pickup. No problem there.

So, to save initial money and time, before buying another humbucker pickup, what does
anyone think about the Single H Super Strat's Seymour Duncan Live Wire Pickup :?: :?: :?:

Is there a possible match if I trade the Seymour Duncan LW from the Black "H" Strat
with the DeMarzio Super Distortion from the Green HSH Strat :?: :?: :?:
Or, are they both essentially the same pickup :?: or not :?:


Thanks for EVERYONE's help, patience and great ideas. I am learning quite a bit.
Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:24 pm
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What is a Warmouth Stratocaster, I did not know they sold guitars. I thought they only sold parts.


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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:49 pm
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tbazzone wrote:
What is a Warmouth Stratocaster, I did not know they sold guitars. I thought they only sold parts.


If you buy enought parts from them, you could build a guitar. But its not a Stratocaster. Only Fender makes those. :wink: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:54 pm
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Looking Back on the first page, 1st pic of the guitar....

Why not just rewire only 2 HB's with single to dual coil, plus the choice of either coil when in single mode.
That will give you the quack you seek depending on which wiring configuration.

I'm sure Martian would give you a schematic for an optimal 2 HB set-up. ( Say Please )

For so called Metal/Rock....I'm referring to Michael Schenker, George Lynch, Vinnie Moore, Yngwie Malmsteen, Mathias Jabs, EVH (early)
Earlier would be Ronnie Montrose...Anyway, a melodic albeit heavily distorted sound..but one where you can easily distinguish the notes unlike some of the more recent " Affreux-JO-JO "

I will swear by the HSS set up as being the most versatile, hence 2 of my Strats have this configuration but different.

Stratopartster II is 2 vintage singles and 1 HB with single to dual coil switching ( Vol Push Pull )
and 2 TBX tone pots with 220k caps.

Image

Stratopartster III is 2 Carvin HII and a M22 HB, 1 Volume, 1 TBX Tone, 1 coil splitter switch.
not the best pic but I will update at some point in the Build section.

Image


The other Strats are various single coils, but I will stack the Stratopartster II and III against anyone's for a comparison of sound, proving that 50% of the stuff out there is just overpriced and falsely marketed....As I said before you don't need to spend that much money to get the sound you want.....

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:39 pm
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53magnatone wrote:
Looking Back on the first page, 1st pic of the guitar....

Why not just rewire only 2 HB's with single to dual coil, plus the choice of either coil when in single mode.
That will give you the quack you seek depending on which wiring configuration.

I'm sure Martian would give you a schematic for an optimal 2 HB set-up. ( Say Please )

For so called Metal/Rock....I'm referring to Michael Schenker, George Lynch, Vinnie Moore, Yngwie Malmsteen, Mathias Jabs, EVH (early)
Earlier would be Ronnie Montrose...Anyway, a melodic albeit heavily distorted sound..but one where you can easily distinguish the notes unlike some of the more recent " Affreux-JO-JO "
I will swear by the HSS set up as being the most versatile, hence 2 of my Strats have this configuration but different.
Stratopartster II is 2 vintage singles and 1 HB with single to dual coil switching ( Vol Push Pull )
and 2 TBX tone pots with 220k caps.
Stratopartster III is 2 Carvin HII and a M22 HB, 1 Volume, 1 TBX Tone, 1 coil splitter switch. I will update at some point in the Build section.
The other Strats are various single coils, but I will stack the Stratopartster II and III against anyone's for a comparison of sound, proving that 50% of the stuff out there is just overpriced and falsely marketed....As I said before you don't need to spend that much money to get the sound you want.....


Good ideas. Thanks a million!!! Nice looking Strats.
Thank you for sharing. Beautiful :!: I do own couple of HSS's.


The main goal here with these two modified guitars is to make them presentable for
playing each pickup independently separate. Then, find pickups that work well together
in positions 2 & 4. These guitars are not serious players, yet, therefore
it's fun to experiment till they're fine tuned to become "go-to-guitars".

Right now, gotta see which pickups work well togethe. Then remove the bad boys
and buy or replace to make a set of pickups who work well together.

Seems like the DeMarzio Super Distortion is the ODD MAN OUT :!: :!: :!:
And, along with the Seymour Duncan Live Wire, will be within a
serious pickup debate as to which is better for the single "H" Black Strat.

So far, I'm liking the idea of . . . . .
1) Keeping the HSH Strat with the DeMarzio "Humbucker from Hell"
and possibly moving it to the neck position.
2) Taking out the DeMarzion Super Distortion for another project/or for the single "H" Strat
3) Keeping the Guitar Fetish Stacked 12k pickup "as is" in the middle positon.
4) Finding a NECK humbucker that will fit well with the other two installed pickup.
5) Get a TBX wiring setup for more switching options.
6) Then investigate if I can split the two neck/bridge humbuckers = "Push/Pull Style" :lol:

Boy, have I learned a lot from this thread :D :D :D

Thanks again. Really much appreciated and much obliged. Toppscore 8)

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Last edited by Toppscore on Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:04 am
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6) Then investigate if I can split the two neck/bridge humbuckers = "TBX Style"

TBX allows you greater tone range by adjusting treble or bass but they don't split dual coils to single for that you need a Push/Pull Volume or/and DP/DT switches. Or at least that is what I understand from point #6. :?:

This is my opinion only but when it comes to multiple pickups I have always preferred a Master Volume and Master Tone Pot...the benefit is that it free's up a space so that if you are rocking 2 HB's, now there is a place to install that DP/DT switch without additional holes....

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:48 pm
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53magnatone wrote:
6) Then investigate if I can split the two neck/bridge humbuckers = "TBX Style"

TBX allows you greater tone range by adjusting treble or bass but they don't split dual coils to single for that you need a Push/Pull Volume or/and DP/DT switches. Or at least that is what I understand from point #6. :?:

This is my opinion only but when it comes to multiple pickups I have always preferred a Master Volume and Master Tone Pot...the benefit is that it free's up a space so that if you are rocking 2 HB's, now there is a place to install that DP/DT switch without additional holes....


Thanks, Magnatone. I am pretty darn clear now.
Let's see what we come up with.

Any idea about a comparison betweeen
the Seymour Duncan Live Wire humbucker and the DeMarzio Super Distortion humbucker?

Thanks, Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:16 pm
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LiveWire humbuckers are active beasts like EMGs.

These Dave Mustaine-endorsed humbuckers had the active, 9-volt-powered preamp built into the pickup, providing the benefits of an active pickup without sacrificing the famous, organic, "Seymourized" tone. Great for classic rock, punk, garage, thrash, old school metal, nu-metal, black metal and other heavy rock and aggressive music styles.

Image

DiMarzio Super Distortion are regular passive humbuckers.

These pickups started a sound revolution. Replacement pickups simply didn’t exist before the invention of the Super Distortion® in the early 1970s. The Super Distortion® (and its original 3-conductor version, the Dual Sound®) was the first pickup specifically designed to kick a tube amp into total overdrive, and is still the standard by which all other high-output pickups are measured. The Super Distortion® has a perfect blend of power and tone: both single-notes and chords jump out of the amp and fill the room (or the track) with a wall of sound. The balance of tones is classic — thick, boosted mids, big lows and fat highs. This is the sound you’ve heard for over three decades on platinum records, from players as varied as Ace Frehley, Al Di Meola, Dave Murray and Paul Gilbert. It’s also versatile: 4-conductor wiring allows instant access to Strat®-like split and series-parallel modes. Discover what thousands of great players know: the Super Distortion® is the best all ’round high-power pickup ever made.

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:33 am
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chromeface wrote:
LiveWire humbuckers are active beasts like EMGs.
These Dave Mustaine-endorsed humbuckers had the active, 9-volt-powered preamp built into the pickup, providing the benefits of an active pickup without sacrificing the famous, organic, "Seymourized" tone. Great for classic rock, punk, garage, thrash, old school metal, nu-metal, black metal and other heavy rock and aggressive music styles.

DiMarzio Super Distortion are regular passive humbuckers.
These pickups started a sound revolution. Replacement pickups simply didn’t exist before the invention of the Super Distortion® in the early 1970s. The Super Distortion® (and its original 3-conductor version, the Dual Sound®) was the first pickup specifically designed to kick a tube amp into total overdrive, and is still the standard by which all other high-output pickups are measured. The Super Distortion® has a perfect blend of power and tone: both single-notes and chords jump out of the amp and fill the room (or the track) with a wall of sound. The balance of tones is classic — thick, boosted mids, big lows and fat highs. This is the sound you’ve heard for over three decades on platinum records, from players as varied as Ace Frehley, Al Di Meola, Dave Murray and Paul Gilbert. It’s also versatile: 4-conductor wiring allows instant access to Strat®-like split and series-parallel modes. Discover what thousands of great players know: the Super Distortion® is the best all ’round high-power pickup ever made.



Awesome. Great info. Thank you, Chromeface.

Not being picky, but able and willing to experiment, I have:
two active EMGs uninstalled
one Seymour Duncan Live Wire installed in a "H" Super Strat single pickup guitar.
one DeMarzio Super Distortion III installed in an HSH Super Strat.

With info from this forum thread, I'm more able to make decisions towards these two guitars.
I'll have time in August to make those decisions before sending anything off to my guitar tech pro.
He'll probably have have ideas as well :lol:

I'm very eager to take one of my 100(+)w amps & compatible speaker cabinets
somewhere I can crank up the noise to get a good feeling what I have and
what the "H" & "HSH" guitars truly offer "as they sit" BEFORE modifications.

Thanks again. Much appreciated. Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TON
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:21 pm
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Hmmm.. Honestly, I like darker sounding neck pickups. I think in order to get a nice dose of variety, you should think about dropping a Seymour Duncan '59 in the bridge. If you've never heard one, I promise you, it has PLENTY of highs. It's a great choice to pair with a darker sounding neck pickup.

It's only a moderate output pickup (8.13k bridge), and it will peel your eyelids off with highs. Hahaha. You might want to think about starting over with a Duncan '59 and Jazz set (SH-1b and SH-2n). I think you'd get a good variety with that. Maybe look into a middle with nice mids to round it out.

Just looking at the eq on the Dimarzio site concerning the Humbucker from Hell, that probably sums it up well for me. I'd never put a pickup with that much treble in the neck of one of my guitars. That would be Hell for me.

Anyway, just my 2-cents. Good luck.

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