Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TONES

bluesky636 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:10 pm

Martian wrote:

bluesky636 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wlcTO-EgMko#!

Bill, this is yet another classic example of, "Great minds think alike". This is the EQ I had in mind while posting the above!

I just posted it because it looked big. :lol:

Martian · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:33 pm

bluesky636 wrote:

Martian wrote:

bluesky636 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wlcTO-EgMko#!

Bill, this is yet another classic example of, "Great minds think alike". This is the EQ I had in mind while posting the above!

I just posted it because it looked big. :lol:

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

* Put in 1000k/1meg pots it will brighten the whole guitar up.

* Stainless steel strings will make it brighter.

* Try switching your tone pot to a TBX pot which will then allow you to cut treble or cut bass since the TBX is a neutral detente @ 5 and goes to 10 or to 1 depending on whether you wish to cut either Bass or treble. Keep it simple, with the coil switch option and the TBX

* Premier mag did a two part feature on this subject, Google it.
* http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... rt_1.aspx/
* http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... art_2.aspx

* You can also change the cap from an 82 to a 220 for the TBX .

* Single to dual coil capabilities that can be done with the Volume pot as a Push/Pull.

* Generally single-coil pickups use 250k pots & humbuckers use 500k pots. It’ss perfectly possible to try 1000k pots in there to see if the little more top end they let through gets you closer to what you want. But I'm doubtful it will help

* The Humbucker From Hell is a very low output humbucker. DiMarzio say it's 5.89k which is amazingly low for a humbucker, They it has a BIG emphasis on treble output. I presume when you use this pickup on its own your guitar sounds the way you want, far as top end definition is concerned.

* To match the ‘HB from Hell’ with a “Super Distortion 3” which has an output DiMarzio rates a staggering 25k with emphasis on the lows and mids = no match at all. If your amp is set up to sound good with the neck pickup it is going to turn to mush as soon as you switch in the bridge.

* I'm not quite sure what you're out to achieve with the 12k Guitar Fetish humbucker in the middle? I get that its output is halfway between the other two, but still, in any meaningful sense it pairs with neither of them.

* Check the wiring circuit just to make sure there's no mistakes that are causing problems.
* Try the 1 meg pots to see if they help with the over-powered humbuckers - though they'll do no favours for the Humbucker From Hell.

* The neck pickup is weak. Granted, it will be clear because it is truly weak for a full sized humbucker but frequency response will not be broad or shall we say, "definitive" for the same reason. Conversely, you have a ridiculously powerful bridge pickup designed to puke midrange, incapable of realistically producing any other definitive frequencies. Obviously, the two are mismatched where setting the amp will be a compromise between getting either of the two to sound half way decent. As to the middle pickup, just by design, it is out of character with the other two in its own rite and therefore, yet another compromise with the amp's setting is necessary.

* You are handicapped with that middle pickup in the sense that it cannot nor ever will be, capable of any semblance of the frequency spectrum a full sized humbucker is capable of. This is, unless of course, you only plan on using it for "quack" functions

* Start with complimentary full sized humbuckers and then, choose a satisfactory middle pickup where three way compatibility gels. Keep in mind though that you could not use high output humbuckers for unilateral treble or the other frequencies of the pickup would suffer. Also, they would dwarf the middle pickup. Here, you would have to use an 'elevated' but not high output stack design to have some semblance of consistency with the outer two, keeping in mind that there is a certain output point where frequency response goes right out the window with these designs too.

* You need to know where you want to be before you start experimenting and dropping this or that pickup and going with this or that
=====================================

Wow! Above is gathered important points from within this thread to consider.
I didn't know the "HB from Hell" is so weak!!!
I'm going to talk these great ideas over with my guitar tech.

Question: Is the Super Distortion 3 pickup designed for the bridge or will it work well
installed at the bridge position? If it's known to be a good "neck pickup", I've a plan

OK. Looks like for now, I can get to know this "new-to-me" guitar better by simply
using just three the 1-3-5 independent switch postions ONLY and not combining them.
No problem there.

Looks like at the moment I have two good pickups.
I need to strategize their usage.
Seems the best thing is to dump the HB from Hell.

Then, maybe move the Super Distortion DeMarzion to the neck positon.

Then, find a bridge humbucker that will match/combine well with the middle
stacked pickup and will do the job desired independently in the 1st position.

My thinking is that the Super Distortion can be it's own production company.
Still want to know what you guys think about the Super Distortion in the NECK position???

So, there is a plan. Wide open to "the plan" to be picked apart.
Mostly, just get a humbucker to work with the middle pickup
and decide where it goes opposite the Super Distortion.

Thanks again. Take care. Toppscore

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

duplicate xxx

Martian · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:52 pm

I presume you want to know if the SD3 is good for the neck. The SD3 was designed for the bridge position of solid body, Floyd Rose equipped guitars. Again, it is virtually all midrange and certainly not appropriate for the neck position.

A Super Distortion in the neck is a bit 'woofy' but some people still use it there. Don't expect any treble response though.

aclempoppi · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:55 pm

Topp, these guys know the real deal!!! After digesting the info, I'd say the balanced pup approach is the way to go. The wiring scenario would also be a consideration. JMHO Art

53magnatone · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:58 pm

Op if you haven't check out this web site,
you may find some ideas which apply...

http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/stratlovers.php

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

Martian wrote:

I presume you want to know if the SD3 is good for the neck. The SD3 was designed for the bridge position of solid body, Floyd Rose equipped guitars. Again, it is virtually all midrange and certainly not appropriate for the neck position.
A Super Distortion in the neck is a bit 'woofy' but some people still use it there. Don't expect any treble response though.

Thanks. Your response solves that problem.
Actually, I want distortion as part of the end result.
I have a guitar that has a single pickup, one humbucker at the bridge.

Now, I'll be seeking a humbucker for the NECK to match with the middle pick-up.
Thank you so much. Toppscore

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

aclempoppi wrote:

Topp, these guys know the real deal!!! After digesting the info, I'd say the balanced pup approach is the way to go. The wiring scenario would also be a consideration. JMHO Art

Thanks, Art.
Yep, I'll get a balanced humbucker for the NECK positon
to go with the middle position pickup.

And, I will check some of the TBX wiring/switching
as well as investigate the capacitor upgrade possibilites.

Thanks again. Toppscore

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

53magnatone wrote:

Op if you haven't check out this web site,
you may find some ideas which apply...
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/stratlovers.php

Thank you, Magna Tone! I will be checking your suggestion out and
the two previously mentioned Premier Guitar Magazine "TBX" articles.

Take care. Toppscore

Martian · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:54 pm

Toppscore wrote:

Martian wrote:

I presume you want to know if the SD3 is good for the neck. The SD3 was designed for the bridge position of solid body, Floyd Rose equipped guitars. Again, it is virtually all midrange and certainly not appropriate for the neck position.
A Super Distortion in the neck is a bit 'woofy' but some people still use it there. Don't expect any treble response though.

Thanks. Your response solves that problem.
Actually, I want distortion as part of the end result.
I have a guitar that has a single pickup, one humbucker at the bridge.

Now, I'll be seeking a humbucker for the NECK to match with the middle pick-up.
Thank you so much. Toppscore

Any time!

53magnatone · **Posted:** Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:00 am

That should keep you busy for a while...
Speaking of pups and wiring, I have a Strat to finish up today...

Ceri · **Posted:** Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:08 am

Toppscore wrote:

Actually, I want distortion as part of the end result.

Hi again Toppscore. Don't want to bombard you over this, but just for the sake of the discussion...

I think the Super Distortion 3 is the root of your problem. You started this thread complaining of not getting enough treble - and the SD3 is at the bottom of that. It's a pickup that is designed for one thing only: chugging away on muted low strings and advanced lickification in the form of single note runs up the dusty end of the fingerboard. Nuttin' else. It's just never going to sound good for anything other than shredding.

Toppscore wrote:

I have a guitar that has a single pickup, one humbucker at the bridge.

Exactly. That's what the SD3 is built for.

Your problem is that none of these pickups really belong in this guitar. The Humbucker From Hell is designed to make a Les Paul sound as clean and trebly as possible - and so belongs nowhere near a gain-driven shred machine.

There's another issue that nobody's mentioned yet. Many guitars in widely different genres have just one pickup. The reason for having more pickups is to sense the string in different places and so produce different tones. However. Your guitar has a two octave / 24 fret neck. That immediately pushes the pickups closer together, reducing the tonal difference they can achieve.

In truth, there seems little reason to have more than two pickups on a 24 fret guitar, which appears to be the conclusion many players have come to:

The only possible reason I can see for having three pickups on this sort of instrument is to do that HSH thang, which the likes of Steve Vai have made "as prevalent as fly crap" (as a great man has written

). And that's certainly what the builder of your guitar decided and why he routed the pickup cavities the way he did. Like HSH setups or not, that's what this guitar was built to do.

So to extend what Martian said, I think you need to start from the ground up. Remove the SD3 to a one-pickup metal guitar, save the Humbucker From Hell for a jazz flavoured Les Paul or similar and use the 12K GFS in the bridge position of an SSS Strat that you want to convert for powerful lead tones.

And then begin again and discover two well-matched humbuckers and a single-coil to go between them for this guitar.

I don't really know HSH setups so I can't advise on which pickups to go for. If it were me I'd go away and study the sets they put on HSH guitars, or better still I'd see if Mr Martian has some thoughts. I have the strangest instinct he doesn't really like HSH configs, and yet I also strongly suspect he knows what would work very well if that's what a guy was asking for. He's a gentleman who knows pickups!

By the way, Toppscore, I don't think you've told us what your guitar actually is? Care to show us the headstock, so's we can see what we're dealing with? Whatever; it's a mighty pretty blue burst flame maple top, so congrats on that.

Cheers - C

Martian · **Posted:** Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:52 am

Ceri wrote:

Toppscore wrote:

Actually, I want distortion as part of the end result.

Hi again Toppscore. Don't want to bombard you over this, but just for the sake of the discussion...

I think the Super Distortion 3 is the root of your problem. You started this thread complaining of not getting enough treble - and the SD3 is at the bottom of that. It's a pickup that is designed for one thing only: chugging away on muted low strings and advanced lickification in the form of single note runs up the dusty end of the fingerboard. Nuttin' else. It's just never going to sound good for anything other than shredding.

Toppscore wrote:

I have a guitar that has a single pickup, one humbucker at the bridge.

Exactly. That's what the SD3 is built for.

Your problem is that none of these pickups really belong in this guitar. The Humbucker From Hell is designed to make a Les Paul sound as clean and trebly as possible - and so belongs nowhere near a gain-driven shred machine.

There's another issue that nobody's mentioned yet. Many guitars in widely different genres have just one pickup. The reason for having more pickups is to sense the string in different places and so produce different tones. However. Your guitar has a two octave / 24 fret neck. That immediately pushes the pickups closer together, reducing the tonal difference they can achieve.

In truth, there seems little reason to have more than two pickups on a 24 fret guitar, which appears to be the conclusion many players have come to:

The only possible reason I can see for having three pickups on this sort of instrument is to do that HSH thang, which the likes of Steve Vai have made "as prevalent as fly crap" (as a great man has written

). And that's certainly what the builder of your guitar decided and why he routed the pickup cavities the way he did. Like HSH setups or not, that's what this guitar was built to do.

So to extend what Martian said, I think you need to start from the ground up. Remove the SD3 to a one-pickup metal guitar, save the Humbucker From Hell for a jazz flavoured Les Paul or similar and use the 12K GFS in the bridge position of an SSS Strat that you want to convert for powerful lead tones.

And then begin again and discover two well-matched humbuckers and a single-coil to go between them for this guitar.

I don't really know HSH setups so I can't advise on which pickups to go for. If it were me I'd go away and study the sets they put on HSH guitars, or better still I'd see if Mr Martian has some thoughts. I have the strangest instinct he doesn't really like HSH configs, and yet I also strongly suspect he knows what would work very well if that's what a guy was asking for. He's a gentleman who knows pickups!

By the way, Toppscore, I don't think you've told us what your guitar actually is? Care to show us the headstock, so's we can see what we're dealing with? Whatever; it's a mighty pretty blue burst flame maple top, so congrats on that.

Cheers - C

Ceri, thank you as always for your compliments.

You've pretty much summed this whole situation up.

Indeed, I'm not a fan of any H/S/H configurations. To me they are a blatant handicap of a mismatch unless that middle pickup is solely there for "quack" aspects. Yet even at this, true "quack" shall only be achieved at a noticeable volume drop and tonal change vs. that of the full sized HBs. Of course and again, this mandates compromised settings of the amp where none of the pickups' individual tonality can be optimized.

From what I perceive, the OP adamantly refuses different pickup choices for which, I've already stated that an EQ is his only realistic recourse for he evidently prefers to treat symptoms and not causes. I shall therefore recuse myself of any further suggestions to wit, as they would be superfluous.

As always, the above is merely IMO where YMMV.

tbazzone · **Posted:** Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:39 am

Looks like an ESP to me.

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