Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TONES

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

I'm having difficulty getting a "brighter sound/tone"
from my newly purchased HHH Super Strat.
(pictured below)

Please help . . . New potentiometer? Different capacitor(s)? Treble booster?
Anybody have experience w/HHH type guitars, or possible options to brighten up the treble???
Thank you very much

Last night I was practicing with an HHH Super Strat and my 1968 Dual Showman Reverb.
It has a "Dimarzio Humbucker from Hell" in the neck, and a "Dimarzio Super 3 Distortion"
as the bridge pickup. This is the guitar I just added a single-coiled sized Guitar Fetish
stacked 12x humbucker in the middle positon.

Guitar Fetish states my new pickup: "12k GFS True Coil is is our hottest True Coil.
It should match the output & power of a 9K single coil pickup and is a great match
for humbuckers. True-Coils use an old-school vintage style single coil pickup mated
to an under-wound coil that is strategically placed to retain ALL of the vintage warmth,
body & clarity while reducing almost all of the 60 cycle hum."
I believe this is a "stacked-humbucker".

The Super Strat still has the darkest tones I've experienced in most all five positions.
Of course the Guitar Fetish "True-Coil" middle pickup had the brightest of the pickup
combinations, but still too dark for me . . . . even with the guitar's treble on 10.

As pictured below, this guitar offers only one tone control and one volume control.

I still need to do more experimenting with other amps, but am already considering
adding a booster to this guitar or maybe a new Tone/Treble potentiometer
or maybe have my guitar tech change the capacitors.

Any suggestions on "brightening up" an HHH Super Strat
with the above humbucking pickups??? What do you think

NEW PICTURE with the Guitar Fetish 12x True Coil Pickup Installed!!!

It's a "new guitar" to me as I bought it last month and immediately took it to
the tech to set her up, redo the wiring and add the Guitar Fetish pickup.

Thanks for any and all ideas on possibilities to brighten up this really cool guitar.
Toppscore

Robinstrat · **Posted:** Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:08 am

If you don´t use the tone knob at all cut the wire going to the tone pot (unsolder it and insulate the wire).
That way the pickups have less load and sound brighter and more direct (most Charvel guitars are wired that way).
If you do use the tone knob check if there´s a 250 kΩ volume pot in there, change it for a 500 kΩ.

Cheers,
Robin

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

Robinstrat wrote:

If you don´t use the tone knob at all cut the wire going to the tone pot (unsolder it and insulate the wire).
That way the pickups have less load and sound brighter and more direct (most Charvel guitars are wired that way).
If you do use the tone knob check if there´s a 250 kΩ volume pot in there,
change it for a 500 kΩ. Cheers, Robin

Hi, Robin. Thank you for your response.
I want to keep the single "tone" potentiaometer option active.
I can replace the "tone" pot if anyone suggests a tone pot that will do the job.
Not sure the current pot specs, but will consider your suggestion

Also, I can talk to my guitar tech to see what the capacitors are and what possibilities
are available to change.

Anybody suggest that the two Demarzion humbuckers be tapped towards "single coil" output?
PLMK - Thanks.

How about an in/out phase switch for the humuckers?

How about a push/pull booster control?

Thanks. Toppscore

somebizarredude · **Posted:** Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:44 pm

if you put in 1000k / 1meg pots it will brighten the whole guitar up.
also stainless steel strings will make it brighter.

53magnatone · **Posted:** Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:41 pm

HB's should be wired up with 500....
However you could try switching your tone pot to a TBX pot which will then allow you to cut treble or cut bass since the TBX is a neutral detente @ 5 and goes to 10 or to 1 depending on wether you wish to cut either Bass or treble..
Premier mag did a two part feature on this subject, google it. You can also change the cap from an 82 to a 220 for the TBX .

As far a single to dual coil capabilities that can be done with the Volume pot as a Push/Pull.
Treble booster now involves active circuitry which will then require batteries and a place to install the battery.
I once had an active circuit set up and hated it just because of the annoyance of switching batteries, inconsistent tone output due to decreasing battery life.

I say keep it simple, with the coil switch option and the TBX, that will give you a lot of possibilities as wells it will take some time to dial in where your adjustment parameters are...

BTW...the other 50% of this equation is the amp, so consider that when choosing electronic mods.

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

53magnatone wrote:

HB's should be wired up with 500....
However you could try switching your tone pot to a TBX pot which will then allow you to cut treble or cut bass since the TBX is a neutral detente @ 5 and goes to 10 or to 1 depending on wether you wish to cut either Bass or treble..
Premier mag did a two part feature on this subject, google it. You can also change the cap from an 82 to a 220 for the TBX .

As far a single to dual coil capabilities that can be done with the Volume pot as a Push/Pull.
Treble booster now involves active circuitry which will then require batteries and a place to install the battery.
I once had an active circuit set up and hated it just because of the annoyance of switching batteries, inconsistent tone output due to decreasing battery life.

I say keep it simple, with the coil switch option and the TBX, that will give you a lot of possibilities as wells it will take some time to dial in where your adjustment parameters are...

BTW...the other 50% of this equation is the amp, so consider that when choosing electronic mods.

Great input, Magna!!!
I am taking notes. I will have a list.
I have an investment in this guitar for a reason,
so gotta get it to be a guitar I desire to pick up and play.

Anybody with other ideas or thoughts or experimental possibilities?
I am very open to trying things.
Hey ~ it is just wood & metal & plastic, right

Toppscore

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

53magnatone wrote:

BTW...the other 50% of this equation is the amp, so consider that when choosing electronic mods.

Agree, but I want to take amplifiers and pedals out of the equation.

All my guitars I've played do not have this problem.
I desire more "treble" options and can later use
distortion pedals or the amp to modify the sounds.
But, gotta have the treble to start with.

Thanks again. Toppscore

Ceri · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:30 am

Toppscore wrote:

All my guitars I've played do not have this problem.

Hello Toppscore: yes, but your other guitars don't have this pickup configuration.

First, whilst we generally pair single-coil pickups with 250k pots and humbuckers with 500k ones, it is perfectly possible to try 1000k pots in there to see if the little more top end they let through gets you closer to what you want. You could give that a go.

But I'm doubtful it will help. I think the issue here is your pickup set, which to my eyes is a very odd grouping. I'm highly curious as to why you've got what you've got?

Despite the wild sounding name, the Humbucker From Hell is in fact a very low output unit. DiMarzio say it's 5.89k, which is amazingly low for a humbucker, and they also say it has a big emphasis on treble output. So I presume when you use this pickup on its own your guitar sounds the way you want, far as top end definition is concerned. Right?

To match that with a Super Distortion 3, with an output DiMarzio rate at a staggering 25k with emphasis on the lows and mids - well, that's not a match at all. That's like putting thin tyres on one side of a car and huge fat racing tyres on the other. If your amp is set up to sound good with the neck pickup it is going to turn to mush as soon as you switch in the bridge.

And I'm not quite sure what you're out to achieve with the 12k Guitar Fetish humbucker in the middle? I get that its output is halfway between the other two, but still, in any meaningful sense it pairs with neither of them.

So...

What I'd do is this:

1. First, check the wiring circuit just to make sure there's no mistakes in the hookup that are causing your problems.

2. Try the 1 meg pots to see if they help with the over-powered humbuckers - though they'll do no favours for the Humbucker From Hell.

3. Start over. Ask yourself what sound you are actually trying to achieve from this guitar and choose one or two new pickups accordingly. I know people love to talk about "versatility" in guitars, but you can't make one guitar do everything. Do you want ultra-high gain or ultra-low? You just ain't going to go from death metal at the bridge to lounge jazz at the neck at the flick of a selector switch. That's not how guitars and amps work together.

Cheers - C

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

Ceri wrote:

Toppscore wrote:

All my guitars I've played do not have this problem.

Hello Toppscore: yes, but your other guitars don't have this pickup configuration.

First, whilst we generally pair single-coil pickups with 250k pots and humbuckers with 500k ones, it is perfectly possible to try 1000k pots in there to see if the little more top end they let through gets you closer to what you want. You could give that a go.

But I'm doubtful it will help. I think the issue here is your pickup set, which to my eyes is a very odd grouping. I'm highly curious as to why you've got what you've got?

Despite the wild sounding name, the Humbucker From Hell is in fact a very low output unit. DiMarzio say it's 5.89k, which is amazingly low for a humbucker, and they also say it has a big emphasis on treble output. So I presume when you use this pickup on its own your guitar sounds the way you want, far as top end definition is concerned. Right?

To match that with a Super Distortion 3, with an output DiMarzio rate at a staggering 25k with emphasis on the lows and mids - well, that's not a match at all. That's like putting thin tyres on one side of a car and huge fat racing tyres on the other. If your amp is set up to sound good with the neck pickup it is going to turn to mush as soon as you switch in the bridge.

And I'm not quite sure what you're out to achieve with the 12k Guitar Fetish humbucker in the middle? I get that its output is halfway between the other two, but still, in any meaningful sense it pairs with neither of them.

So... What I'd do is this: 1. First, check the wiring circuit just to make sure there's no mistakes in the hookup that are causing your problems.

2. Try the 1 meg pots to see if they help with the over-powered humbuckers - though they'll do no favours for the Humbucker From Hell.

3. Start over. Ask yourself what sound you are actually trying to achieve from this guitar and choose one or two new pickups accordingly. I know people love to talk about "versatility" in guitars, but you can't make one guitar do everything. Do you want ultra-high gain or ultra-low? You just ain't going to go from death metal at the bridge to lounge jazz at the neck at the flick of a selector switch. That's not how guitars and amps work together. Cheers - C

Thanks, Ceri. I purchased the Super Strat with the two Demarzios installed. I shopped
around for a single coil that could compete with the two humbuckers. I didn't want a
"hot rail" type humbucker in there as I've already got a three HHH "hot rail" Strat as pictured:

So, a suggestion came in to check out Guitar Fetish for a Hendrix Reverse Stagger
Alnico Premium Pickup Set, I came across this particular GFS 12k true coil pickup.
After several chats with the techs at GF, and showing them the guitar and installed
humbuckers, they claimed the 12k would be a perfect match for the two Damarzios.

I believe this pickup is a type of stacked quasi humbucker that cannot be split.
Seekiing various options with the two humbuckers.

The risk taker I am, I had it done. My big picture goal is for unique sounds & tones,
but this setup is a bit dark & bass heavy for me. I'd like to experiment withTBX switching,
or changing the tone or volume potentiometers, or changing capacitors to see what
Dr Frankenstein can conjure up I'm fair game.
Very interested in ideas to take to my tech.

Ceri. I am going to study everyword of your response and get the notes
from all the comments from all. Much appreciated. Toppscore

Martian · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:58 am

First and foremost, DC resistance is not the "de facto" indicator of a pickup's frequency response or output. Granted, it is a factor but one of several which can easily negate the popularly assumed audible results. Players oftentimes get too tuned into one specification, ignoring the "big picture" where they are genuinely astonished with the unexpected audible results because of this.

Sidestepping any "on-paper" specs, let's look at your setup on face value: As has been said, you have a weak neck pickup. Granted, it will be clear because it is truly weak for a full sized humbucker but frequency response will not be broad or shall we say, "definitive" for the same reason. Conversely, you have a ridiculously powerful bridge pickup designed to puke midrange, incapable of realistically producing any other definitive frequencies. Obviously, the two are mismatched where setting the amp will be a compromise between getting either of the two to sound half way decent. As to the middle pickup, just by design, it is out of character with the other two in its own rite and therefore, yet another compromise with the amp's setting is necessary.

You are handicapped with that middle pickup in the sense that it cannot nor ever will be, capable of any semblance of the frequency spectrum a full sized humbucker is capable of. This is, unless of course, you only plan on using it for "quack" functions which if I'm interpreting your statements correctly, is not your sole aim with this pickup.

Consequently, you would have to start with complimentary full sized humbuckers and then, choose a satisfactory middle pickup where three way compatibility gels. Keep in mind though that you could not use high output humbuckers for unilateral treble or the other frequencies of the pickup would suffer. Also, they would dwarf the middle pickup. Here, you would have to use an 'elevated' but not high output stack design to have some semblance of consistency with the outer two, keeping in mind that there is a certain output point where frequency response goes right out the window with these designs too.

Yes, I'm aware that H/S/H designs are not only prevalent as fly crap but equally popular as well. Notwithstanding, this does not change the reality of the aforementioned.

Lastly in this context, changing or altering pots to higher resistances only partially treats symptoms and surely, does not correct the causes.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

53magnatone · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:41 am

I cannot elaborate on Ceri's and Martian's post as they understand electronic circuits much better than I.

However Toppscore, you've mentioned you want all kinds of sounds....but to what aim :?:

Or more to the point, what kind of music are you playing with the setup you want.. :?:

How are you running your signal.. :?:

Multiple pedals... :?:

Solid State Amp... :?:

Valve/Tube Amp... :?:

Wattage... :?:

Even though it may not seem important, the above questions are critical in relating to the sound you will hear from the amps speakers.

I mentioned keeping it simple as a relative term, I disagree strongly with the current emphasis on spending large sums of money on all these pick-ups that promise to deliver with names that are really nothing more than marketing fly-traps.
Seriously, I just spent the most money I ever did for pickups and that is a set of Texas Specials for the Telepartster I build. So about $200.
Prior to this I look for pups with the correct resistance where in a Strat set up of 3 pups, all three will match up and complement combo settings. If you have 3 pups but can only use one at a time then it is pointless to have more than One....

I just ran into a similar problem with the Stratopartster II, where my HSS set up was incorrect.
I had installed the neck pup in the middle instead of the neck. As well as the Seymour Duncan HB with single to dual coil switching was incompatible with the other two.
So the answer was ditch the SD and in place install a Gotoh HB which was a better match to the Fender standard vintage single pups even though the neck is a higher output than the middle...set up is 2 TBX tones for all pick ups, Push /Pull Volume for HB single to dual and a five way switch...then direct to a mid 60's Magnatone 410.
for the music I play that is perfect....

My point is that you need to know where you want to be before you start experimenting and dropping this or that pickup and going with this or that.... :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOHwjjhFTac

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

53magnatone wrote:

I cannot elaborate on Ceri's and Martian's post as they understand electronic circuits much better than I.

However Toppscore, you've mentioned you want all kinds of sounds....but to what aim :?:

Or more to the point, what kind of music are you playing with the setup you want.. :?:

How are you running your signal.. :?:

Multiple pedals... :?:

Solid State Amp... :?:

Valve/Tube Amp... :?:

Wattage... :?:

Even though it may not seem important, the above questions are critical in relating to the sound you will hear from the amps speakers.

I mentioned keeping it simple as a relative term, I disagree strongly with the current emphasis on spending large sums of money on all these pick-ups that promise to deliver with names that are really nothing more than marketing fly-traps.
Seriously, I just spent the most money I ever did for pickups and that is a set of Texas Specials for the Telepartster I build. So about $200.
Prior to this I look for pups with the correct resistance where in a Strat set up of 3 pups, all three will match up and complement combo settings. If you have 3 pups but can only use one at a time then it is pointless to have more than One....

I just ran into a similar problem with the Stratopartster II, where my HSS set up was incorrect.
I had installed the neck pup in the middle instead of the neck. As well as the Seymour Duncan HB with single to dual coil switching was incompatible with the other two.
So the answer was ditch the SD and in place install a Gotoh HB which was a better match to the Fender standard vintage single pups even though the neck is a higher output than the middle...set up is 2 TBX tones for all pick ups, Push /Pull Volume for HB single to dual and a five way switch...then direct to a mid 60's Magnatone 410.
for the music I play that is perfect....

My point is that you need to know where you want to be before you start experimenting and dropping this or that pickup and going with this or that.... :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOHwjjhFTac

Thanks. The GFS 12k pickup is $32.
How are you running your signal ~ Guitar to Showman Reverb, Clean Channel. Guitar Treble (only one control for all tones) on ten.

Multiple pedals... No pedals
Solid State Amp... Only 1960s Fender tube amps. Silverface, Blackface & Brownface
Wattage... 1963 Tremolux, 1964 Twin Reverb. 1964 Super Reverb, 1964 Bassman, 1968 Showman Reverb

My goal is for each guitar to sound different on it's own.
No need to own more than one Stratocaster SSS or one Telecaster SS.
Sure, all Fender Strat SSS guitars can have different sounds, but they are still close.

My guitars do vary deeply and greatly with various components:
pickups (single coil, H, HHH, HSH, HSS etc.) bridges, in/out phase switches, push/pull boosters.

I've not had any problem with any guitar until this one. I did not want to add a single coil
inbetween the two Demarzio humbuckers. So, I got this powerful 12x stacked pickup.
All three are dark/bass sounding on dedicated switch positions 1-3-5.
Positions 2-4 are mixtures, of course.

Therefore my interest in leaving the pickups as they are and investigating what options
might be successful by modifying or replacing the:
single volume pot, the single tone pot, capacitors, adding TBX switching, adding a booster,
tapping the Demarzios.

OK. Hope this helps share my ideas.
I have to read, study and make a list of the wonderful suggestions so far.
Nobody has discussed booster. Aren't there famous Strat boosters?

Thanks again. Toppscore

Martian · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:19 pm

Toppscore wrote:

...my interest in leaving the pickups as they are and investigating what options
might be successful...[/b]

Based on this, frankly, I'd say your only realistic option is a superior EQ.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

bluesky636 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:27 pm

Martian wrote:

Toppscore wrote:

...my interest in leaving the pickups as they are and investigating what options
might be successful...[/b]

Based on this, frankly, I'd say your only realistic option is a superior EQ.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cTO-EgMko#!

Martian · **Posted:** Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:52 pm

bluesky636 wrote:

Martian wrote:

Toppscore wrote:

...my interest in leaving the pickups as they are and investigating what options
might be successful...[/b]

Based on this, frankly, I'd say your only realistic option is a superior EQ.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cTO-EgMko#!

Bill, this is yet another classic example of, "Great minds think alike". This is the EQ I had in mind while posting the above!

	Page 1 of 5	[ 70 posts ]	Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next

	Page 1 of 5	[ 70 posts ]	Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next

Andorra	EN	ES	FR
Belgium	EN	DE	FR
Croatia	EN
Czech Republic	EN
Estonia	EN
France	EN	FR
Germany	EN	DE
Italy	EN	IT
Latvia	EN
Lithuania	EN
Malta	EN
Netherlands	EN
Poland	EN
Romania	EN
Slovakia	EN
Sweden	EN
United Kingdom	EN

Austria	EN	DE
Bulgaria	EN
Cyprus	EN
Denmark	EN
Finland	EN
Greece	EN
Hungary	EN
Ireland	EN
Liechtenstein	EN	DE
Luxembourg	EN	DE	FR
Monaco	EN	FR
Norway	EN
Portugal	EN
Slovenia	EN
Spain	EN	ES
Switzerland	EN	DE	FR	IT

Mod Shop

Custom Shop

Need help to "BRIGHTEN UP" an HHH Super Strat w/DARK TONES

Who is online