When is a Strat not a Strat anymore?

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

Arc-n-spark wrote:

As guitars go Strats are seemingly designed to be modified. As one member here put it, if you change the strings from the original brand and specs you have modified the guitar.
It's easy to say that nearly every Strat has had a change done to it if only strings. So getting to the title of the thread. Where do you draw the line when buying a Strat where the mods that have been done outweigh your opinion of what a Strat should be?
I feel that the neck is a given. If it doesn't have an original neck then it isn't a Strat anymore.
I feel it should also have the original body even if it's been refinished in any way. To me it's still a Strat but I may pass on it if I don't like the finish.
So where do you draw the line? Mind you all, I'm asking for your opinion. These vary from person to person. You may like or dislike someone elses opinion but please... lets keep it civil and on topic. Thanks

THE MOST ODD Strat that I own

FreeNote 12-Tone Ultra Plus Microtonal Guitar Neck on Samick/Greg Bennett Body

Great thread. Thanks.
I have quite a few Stratocasts = Fender MIAmerica, Fender MIMexico, Custom Super Strats,
MIA Fender Stratocaster Plus Ultra, and several Non-Fender Brand Strat body'ed clones.

I have a MIA Jimi Hendrix Lefty converted to a Flipped Righty,
MIM HSS Fat Stratocaster, Strats with HHH, HSH, HSS, H, SSS & Lace Sensors, etc.
Several Strats with Fender factory pickups and Several Strats with custom pickups.

All in all, my Strats "look like Strats", physically.
If you dig the SSS pickup structure, then most of my Strats fail the test.
I believe all of my Strats have a Strat looking neck (w/various head stock possibilities).

But, my bottom line towards Arc's OP Theme is that if the guitar has the Strat body,
it is a Strat in my heart. You can change the neck, change the pickups, add switches,
one two or three control knobs, hardtail or various tremolo options, etc.

If it looks like a Strat, it's a Strat in my humble opinion.

Just like NASCAR ~ you can tell all of the heavily modified cars came from
a Chevy or Ford or Dodge, etc. Right?

Great thread, Arc N Spark

Guitar_Fiend · **Joined:** Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:22 pm **Posts:** 169

not sure if I commented on this before or not, but I would say if it's still a Fender Strat body and neck then it is still a strat - the other components are fair game.

Once you change the body or neck, even if using a licensed replacement body by someone like Warmoth, I would say it becomes a parts-caster.

The reason I have this opinion is because Fender themselves have so many variations on the design that you can't truly define a strat by one particular setup. The American Standard might be the benchmark - pro quality, but basically middle of the road for the production models.

But since Fender still considers all it's variations strats, how can we deny a strat's right to having the name if it's at least an original Fender neck and body?

RCB-CA-USA · **Joined:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am **Posts:** 1281

Ever since I modded my Hwy 1 SSS with GHS 8.5-40's and a complete setup that took a bit to finally settle in to perfection...well, the full-blown strat that it is broke through, big. ...it yields tones and textures no other type of guitar yields. It reacts to a style of playing that other guitars don't react well to (slap n' spank, pluck n' pull, ...bounciness). Yeah, other Fender guitars will kind of get you into slap n' spank, pluck n' pull, and bounciness, but still...not like a strat. Much like you won't every truly pull off a tele tone on a strat. Conversely, the strat does have limitations as some styles of music do not work well at all on a strat unless you heavily influence the signal chain with stuff. Yeah, you can mod this and that to do this and that, but once you start modding, you start losing the slap n' spank or pluck n' pull.

At this point, my thinking is leaning towards...if it's not a Fender brand SSS strat with relatively traditional vintage wiring and electronics, it's not a strat. Anything else would either be a variation on the strat, a strat *type* guitar or a strat copy if it's built just like a strat, or a modern strat if it's made by Fender but is made with modern electronics and, or hardware.

I am also thinking...there's a vintage strat and a modern strat, the modern strat getting modern electronics and hardware and a beefy headstock, but the vintage style strat gets the moniker of "strat" because it's the original strat.

So, I've got a modern strat!

ZZDoc · **Posted:** Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:36 am

The number of versions of the Stratocaster produced by Fender has been cited. In the spirit of the law, if you change any of the stock components of any of those guitars. it is no longer THAT guitar. The case that was cited for me involved the refurbishing of cell phones and because the remanufacture involved installing a component that was different from that in the original phone's manufacture it was no longer entitled to wear the name of THAT phone. So, where Thorn is concerned, if the guitar that is now equipped with '69 pickups started out as an American Standard, cannot be resold/referred to as it's former self...in the spirit of the law. You can describe it as a Stratocaster guitar: American Standard w/'69 pickups but not as a Fender American Standard Stratocaster.

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

ZZDoc wrote:

The number of versions of the Stratocaster produced by Fender has been cited. In the spirit of the law, if you change any of the stock components of any of those guitars. it is no longer THAT guitar. The case that was cited for me involved the refurbishing of cell phones and because the remanufacture involved installing a component that was different from that in the original phone's manufacture it was no longer entitled to wear the name of THAT phone. So, where Thorn is concerned, if the guitar that is now equipped with '69 pickups started out as an American Standard, cannot be resold/referred to as it's former self...in the spirit of the law. You can describe it as a Stratocaster guitar: American Standard w/'69 pickups but not as a Fender American Standard Stratocaster.

Thanks, ZZDoc.
I like to reference the auto industry.
Since the 1980s, I've owned five 1965 & 1966 Ford Hardtop Mustangs.
All modified in someway.
But, when I sell an older car, it is still a Mustang, but with a new engine,
different paint and better radio, right?

Ooooohhhhhh Yeeeeaaaaahhhhhhh
ALL of my Mustangs got the complete air-conditioning upgrade ~
radiator, pump and interior modifications. Can't live without AC

Anyone trying to sell anything, any amp or any guitar without mentioning
upgrades and/or mods, is in for trouble, Fender or not. Right?
Toppscore

ZZDoc · **Posted:** Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:57 pm

Agreed. We're really working a very fine line here and its purposes are more for the legal protection of the interests of the owner of the trademark or patent. If you should find for yourself and read the decision againt Fender's seeking to trademark it's body shapes. The judge's decisions and reasonings are quite interesting and will give you some insight as to what short range and long range needs must be anticipated in protecting a trademark or patent.

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

ZZDoc wrote:

Agreed. We're really working a very fine line here and its purposes are more for the legal protection of the interests of the owner of the trademark or patent. If you should find for yourself and read the decision againt Fender's seeking to trademark it's body shapes. The judge's decisions and reasonings are quite interesting and will give you some insight as to what short range and long range needs must be anticipated in protecting a trademark or patent.

Thanks. (+)1.

Brian J. · **Joined:** Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:58 pm **Posts:** 20

T2Stratman wrote:

Ok maybe I have been hanging out on-line with Arjay too much and those ludite tendancies are rubbing off...but if it doesn't have the Strat body, neck, Single coil pickups, and controls layout, it has lost it's "Stratness"...is that a new word? It don't much matter if the pickups have been replaced as long as they are single coils size, no body routes for HB's or the deal is off.

IMHO

T2

+1

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

RCB-CA-USA wrote:

Ever since I modded my Hwy 1 SSS with GHS 8.5-40's and a complete setup that took a bit to finally settle in to perfection...well, the full-blown strat that it is broke through, big. ...it yields tones and textures no other type of guitar yields. It reacts to a style of playing that other guitars don't react well to (slap n' spank, pluck n' pull, ...bounciness). Yeah, other Fender guitars will kind of get you into slap n' spank, pluck n' pull, and bounciness, but still...not like a strat. Much like you won't every truly pull off a tele tone on a strat. Conversely, the strat does have limitations as some styles of music do not work well at all on a strat unless you heavily influence the signal chain with stuff. Yeah, you can mod this and that to do this and that, but once you start modding, you start losing the slap n' spank or pluck n' pull. At this point, my thinking is leaning towards...if it's not a Fender brand SSS strat with relatively traditional vintage wiring and electronics, it's not a strat. Anything else would either be a variation on the strat, a strat *type* guitar or a strat copy if it's built just like a strat, or a modern strat if it's made by Fender but is made with modern electronics and, or hardware. I am also thinking...there's a vintage strat and a modern strat, the modern strat getting modern electronics and hardware and a beefy headstock, but the vintage style strat gets the moniker of "strat" because it's the original strat. So, I've got a modern strat!

Point, Counter Point

"the strat does have limitations as some styles of music do not work well
at all on a strat unless you heavily influence the signal chain with stuff."
I say, no one guitar does it all, or ANY ONE guitar CAN do it all.
Just gotta have the right fret/hand/pick/palm action set with tones
and pickups and switches and pedals and amps. It can be done. IMHO

As stated within the FOUR Beautiful "B's" ~ BASEBALL BOOZE BROADS & BEER
. . . . . . ANY SHOT CAN BE MADE

"you can mod this and that to do this and that, but once you start modding,
you start losing the slap n' spank or pluck n' pull"
Every Strat is modded. Fender makes so many Strats, that there's NOTHING
that is "THE TRUTH" Nothing that is "The Holy Grail of Standard Fender Stratocaster Tone".
ALL Strats vary. Even 1950s originals change with aging wood,
frets, pickup wires, potentiometer ware, and different strings. RIGHT???

What is "THE STANDARD STRAT SOUND" and how will "THE SOUND" change with different
guitar players, different slappers, different spankers, different pluckers & different pullers

"if it's not a Fender brand SSS strat with relatively traditional vintage
wiring and electronics, it's not a strat. Anything else would either be a variation on the
strat, a strat *type* guitar or a strat copy if it's built just like a strat, or a modern strat
if it's made by Fender but is made with modern electronics and, or hardware."
IMHO, all guitars are variations on a theme. Fender offers soooooo many different SSS Strats.
All are different in some way. Players claim variations in nuts, paint, finish, fretboard wood,
strings, locking tuners/nuts/bridge/trmelos, height of the pickups, etc.
. . . . . ALL can make the "same" Strat different

I will bet my entire collection of everything that there are non-Fender factory Stratalikes
that can be made to sound "more similar" to an early original 1950s Fender SSS Stratocaster
than many of the 1970s-2012 off-the-shelf new Fender Factory Strats.
What say you Chime on in.

***Also, I am not saying modern guitars or diffferent modifications or changes are BAD.
You know me by now . . . . . .
I LOVE VARIATION of a THEME ~ check a few of my below posted Fender & Strat photos.

I'm a man of many "Fender Tastes" ~ STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIEND

How about a bit of Reversed Fliped-Up-Side-Down Left Handed Jimi Hendrix

Anybody ready for some High Powered HSH 24 Fret'in Metal Madness

Hope you enjoyed the view
It's taken a bit of time to build up my collection of these Strats and Super Strats.

There are a few others I didn't include. Life's been interesting trying to:

"AVOID THE 'NORMAL' STRAT SOUND" or WHATEVER that sound is SUPPOSED TO BE

Now, gotta spend some time with the family, if you know what I mean
Toppscore

Arnold Layne · **Posted:** Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:56 am

To me as long as the body and neck is Fender strat it's a real strat, even if they come from different guitars, which is why they bolt on to begin with. Leo's original idea was that if your neck wore out, simply bolt on a new one. Would anybody disagree that the following pictures are NOT a strat?

the red strat is still the red strat, EMG's or not

ralfcaetano · **Posted:** Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:04 am

Arnold Layne wrote:

To me as long as the body and neck is Fender strat it's a real strat, even if they come from different guitars, which is why they bolt on to begin with. Leo's original idea was that if your neck wore out, simply bolt on a new one. Would anybody disagree that the following pictures are NOT a strat?

i agree with you up to a certain point i think higher end squiers should be considered strats too since the dimensions are all the same... plus i don't think you could tell the diference

rkreisher · **Posted:** Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:47 am

A Stratocaster is no longer a Stratocaster when I say so. Until then it is a Strat or a Strat copy. But that is just my opinion.

davidwhitson · **Joined:** Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:25 pm **Posts:** 144

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

Arnold Layne wrote:

To me as long as the body and neck is Fender strat it's a real strat, even if they come from different guitars, which is why they bolt on to begin with. Leo's original idea was that if your neck wore out, simply bolt on a new one. Would anybody disagree that the following pictures are NOT a strat?

Arnold!!!!
For me, you have stated the best way to define a true Fender Stratocaster/Telecaster.
It's the WOOD

Great! Because, even Fender uses parts and pieces and components
from other manufacturers. And all Fender guitars are different from
other Fender guitars either in major or in subtle ways.

Thanks. Much appreciated. Man with a head on his shoulders

Hey, Jimi! Is that guitar a Fender Strat
I don't know But the neck and body say "Fender" on them.
Then, Jimi, it's a Fender Strat No matter how you flip it around

Toppscore

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

rkreisher wrote:

A Stratocaster is no longer a Stratocaster when I say so.
Until then it is a Strat or a Strat copy. But that is just my opinion.

OK. If you "say so"

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