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Post subject: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:07 pm
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When I first got my Blacktop, I immediately noticed that the bridge was floating causing the action to be higher than I want and I assume that it might also be the reason why the strings keep going out of tune. All my other guitars has the bridge laying flat on the body.
So, with my curioisity and noob attempt to remedy the action, I screwed the springs to pull the bridge. Then 'voila'...! Instant lower action and amazingly, the tuning issues got better... and I notice how easy it is now to bend strings! Do you guys prefer the floating or non floating bridge?


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Now, my few questions are:

1. Is there a big difference with floating & non-floating bridge aside from the obvious fact that you can increase the pitch on floating
2. Is it true that if the bridge is close to the body, it might contribute in thinning out the sound? I just read it here --> http://www.kitrae.net/music/music_strat.html
3. My friend installed additional springs, what exactly does it do and does it make tuning more stable when using the tremolo arm? or just for aesthetics? I use my tremolo arm very often...
4. Is there an issue if I tighten more the screws at the back?


Thanks in advance!

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:21 pm
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valvestate wrote:
1. Is there a big difference with floating & non-floating bridge aside from the obvious fact that you can increase the pitch on floating?


Yes.

valvestate wrote:
2. Is it true that if the bridge is close to the body, it might contribute in thinning out the sound?


No.

valvestate wrote:
3. My friend installed additional springs, what exactly does it do and does it make tuning more stable when using the tremolo arm? or just for aesthetics? I use my tremolo arm very often...


It increases the effort required to depress the tremolo. It does not necessarily add to tuning stability. As to aesthetics, I cannot fathom how springs would be in the realm of, "eye candy". I use my tremolo arm rather sparingly...

valvestate wrote:
4. Is there an issue if I tighten more the screws at the back?


I wouldn't call it an issue but there are consequences: It stretches the springs, brings the bridge block closer to or even flush with the guitar's body and increases the effort required to depress the tremolo.

valvestate wrote:
Thanks in advance!


You're welcome!

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:03 pm
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Are you the original owner?
If so, Fender will fix it.
Lifetime warranty.

Toppscore

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:44 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
Are you the original owner?
If so, Fender will fix it.
Lifetime warranty.

Toppscore


Yes, I am the original owner and this is a new guitar. It's not actually a problem since I saw from other videos in YouTube that they also have a floating bridge out of the box :) I just want the bridge to be flat and the action to be lowered and some of the queries I asked. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:57 am
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valvestate wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Are you the original owner?
If so, Fender will fix it.
Lifetime warranty.

Toppscore


Yes, I am the original owner and this is a new guitar. It's not actually a problem since I saw from other videos in YouTube that they also have a floating bridge out of the box :) I just want the bridge to be flat and the action to be lowered and some of the queries I asked. 8)


I have recently read that someone did or that it's possible
to secure the bridge to some degree. Not sure, but interesting to know.
Gotta think that thousand of owners have the same deal,
so there must be a way to live with it. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:24 am
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Fix what? What is broken?
The Synchronized Tremolo was designed to float from day 1. That is why Fender ship them floating.
The fact that it functions well as a fixed bridge is just testament to the great design.

As for floating or flush. I go floating on the guitars I use the tremolo on. A well set up floating tremolo returns to pitch better than a flush set one. And also gets over a lot of problems with binding issues. Whether they be at the nut or in the trem block. I have a strat I don't use the trem on, that has the trem flush to the body and blocked.
It doesn't make the slightest iota of difference to the sound of the guitar.

As for setting string height, that should be done at the saddles. Not the tremolo pitch.

Here is Leo's initial drawing showing the bridge floating.

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:49 am
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You don't adjust the action by floating or decking the bridge to the body. You adjust the action via the bridge saddles. As far as the floating bridge, it's personal preference. I keep mine decked, but I generally don't use the trem. Never felt the need for extra springs either. Tuning is pretty stable. What you should do is adjust bridge where you prefer it, whether floating or decking, depending on whether you use the trem, then adjust the action via the saddles. cheers


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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:56 am
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nikininja wrote:
Fix what? What is broken?
The Synchronized Tremolo was designed to float from day 1. That is why Fender ship them floating.
The fact that it functions well as a fixed bridge is just testament to the great design.

As for floating or flush. I go floating on the guitars I use the tremolo on. A well set up floating tremolo returns to pitch better than a flush set one. And also gets over a lot of problems with binding issues. Whether they be at the nut or in the trem block. I have a strat I don't use the trem on, that has the trem flush to the body and blocked.
It doesn't make the slightest iota of difference to the sound of the guitar.
As for setting string height, that should be done at the saddles. Not the tremolo pitch.
Here is Leo's initial drawing showing the bridge floating.


Good stuff. Thanks.
Like I said. I read where someone killed the floating and made the
bridge more stable. No clue if desirable or not for the doer of the deed.

I read it on the forum, somewhere.

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:59 am
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mojjett wrote:
You don't adjust the action by floating or decking the bridge to the body. You adjust the action via the bridge saddles. As far as the floating bridge, it's personal preference. I keep mine decked, but I generally don't use the trem. Never felt the need for extra springs either. Tuning is pretty stable. What you should do is adjust bridge where you prefer it, whether floating or decking, depending on whether you use the trem, then adjust the action via the saddles. cheers


Maybe this is it, or maybe I mis-read/mis-understood "blocking the tremolo".
Toppscore.


This paragraph came from the Fender Forum:
"After blocking the tremolo to my ADStrat the holes for the strings are no longer accessible so in order to change strings the back cover needs to be removed. Okay, not a big deal and I think the loss of access is a natural consequence of the procedure but since this is the first time I'm doing this I just want to make sure I haven't done anything stupid."


Following is another conversation and and a link to products that "kill" floating tremolos.
Not from this Fender Forum.



"I would use mahogany or any good hard wood. Try to make the piece as close a fit as possible and then just shove it in there. I guess you would need to either glue it or somehow keep it from moving when you worked the trem, but otherwise I think that is about it."

"I made a cheapy out of pine, and then when that looked good, made one out of oak-I had both woods laying around. What I came up with was sort of like a fat "L". The obvious chunk between the trem body and the wood, up to the level of the springs. I also carried it up all the way on the control side of the cavity so that I could drop a screw in there. It aint going nowhere. My scientific early measurement-it is about 2 paint stirrers wide. I did remove all the springs, which was a pain-so I widened those hole just a tiny bit. Anyway, it only took 15 minutes using the little table saw and a smaller saw to finish the inside cut. A tiny amount of sanding. I should have painted it blue, but at that point I wasnt sure it would work. It's in there now. I use 5 springs, pulled tighter so I can drop D or dual bend with no tuning issues. I only trem on a couple of songs and I am loving it the way it sits now. Much more solid feeling than it was with the tremol-no."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-stratocaster-big-brass-tremolo-stop-w-hardware-/220780945365?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item336791dfd5#ht_500wt_949

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:46 am
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Toppscore wrote:
...Like I said. I read...somewhere.


"Infallible Web Dogma" strikes again!

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:02 am
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thanks guys for the resp0nse! Just to be clear, i do not have any issues. I was just asking a query :lol:
Believe it or n0t, after i flushed the bridge, i immediately n0ticed that i can n0w easily bend and n0t having the feeling of pulling/ fighting over the strings when i do lead lines. It also resulted with the acti0n m0re lower. i guess, i just got lucky. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:18 am
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Valvestate...I suggest a couple of things..

The design of the Stratocaster was created by an engineer Leo Fender, so it's as much a mechanical device as an instrument, a device created so that the pro musician playing/using this musical device could repair, replace and set up and completely tune the Strat anywhere, anytime, anyplace.

Paul Balmer's book " The Fender Stratocaster Handbook " Second Edition is a valuable tech manual.
Also A.R. Duchossoir's " The fender Stratocaster " contains information on specs and dimensions.
Valuable info if you are going to replace/mod certain parts...Not all parts are interchangeable from One Strat model to the next, even though they look like twins... This is an old book from 1986 but the info is contemporary..

On clicking on some of your quote sources, I would add caution as they are very specific case studies, I also disagree with some of the stated facts or assumptions.....

Do some research from vetted tech sources as to setting up the Strat.....
I would add that concerning the spring system of the term, it is designed to be equal tension between string tension versus spring tension. The extra springs are for increasing tension but the two claw screws are not designed to be the sole tension points by driving them towards flush at the body.
If you leave only two springs and then tighten the claw screws, you'll stretch the springs outside of their optimal range . string to spring tension must be equal, thus the Tremolo is fully floating with full adjustability for either sharp or flat movement.
The spring has to be tensioned where if you pull up with the bar, you have full Trem travel until the tremolo block contacts the body, the spring should still be tensioned at this point.
Now adjusted the Trem has a smooth operation either going sharp or flat. The springs are tensioned midway in their range , do not catch and the tone is unchanged ( this one I'm skeptical of.. :? )

Also if you don't understand some of the adjustments, we've all been there and still learning,
ask your tech t the store, they should be welcoming questions about setup and operation..

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:35 am
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Toppscore wrote:
...I read where someone killed the floating and made the
bridge more stable....


Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a decked/blocked bridge will be much more stable than a floating bridge, as far as staying in tune. A 6 screw floating Fender bridge cannot stay in tune with whammy use, just the nature of the design, there is no precision. A decked/fixed/blocked bridge obviously can't move, and therefore can not go out of tune as easily as one that's floating. To say that a floating bridge has better tuning stability than a fixed/decked bridge is ludicrous at best.

The decked bridge will also add to the resonance of the guitar body as more of the bridge is in contact with the body, transferring more string vibration through the body. This can also effect the sustain, and the string vibrations. Some prefer one sound over the other.

The best setup six screw floating bridge can only keep the strings in tune with each other, but all will go slightly sharp or slightly flat with whammy use. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. The two screw design is better for tuning stability, but without a double-locking system, there will be some tuning variance with whammy use (loose string behind the saddles, etc).

BTW, I agree that there is nothing to "fix" about a floating bridge, it is designed to float. And the bridge block does not contact the body, unless something is terribly wrong with the setup.

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 am
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Lots of ifs and buts about it. My guitars do a hell of a lot of work and don't go out of tune, ever. At all and I don't check them against some ropey pedal tuner. Regardless of trem usage. Which at the moment is about a hour and a half 4 nights a week. With excessive trem use.

It all comes down to whether you're capable of setting the thing up properly.

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Post subject: Re: Query about non-floating bridge
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:45 am
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Toppscore wrote:
mojjett wrote:
You don't adjust the action by floating or decking the bridge to the body. You adjust the action via the bridge saddles. As far as the floating bridge, it's personal preference. I keep mine decked, but I generally don't use the trem. Never felt the need for extra springs either. Tuning is pretty stable. What you should do is adjust bridge where you prefer it, whether floating or decking, depending on whether you use the trem, then adjust the action via the saddles. cheers


Maybe this is it, or maybe I mis-read/mis-understood "blocking the tremolo".
Toppscore.


This paragraph came from the Fender Forum:
"After blocking the tremolo to my ADStrat the holes for the strings are no longer accessible so in order to change strings the back cover needs to be removed. Okay, not a big deal and I think the loss of access is a natural consequence of the procedure but since this is the first time I'm doing this I just want to make sure I haven't done anything stupid."


Following is another conversation and and a link to products that "kill" floating tremolos.
Not from this Fender Forum.



"I would use mahogany or any good hard wood. Try to make the piece as close a fit as possible and then just shove it in there. I guess you would need to either glue it or somehow keep it from moving when you worked the trem, but otherwise I think that is about it."

"I made a cheapy out of pine, and then when that looked good, made one out of oak-I had both woods laying around. What I came up with was sort of like a fat "L". The obvious chunk between the trem body and the wood, up to the level of the springs. I also carried it up all the way on the control side of the cavity so that I could drop a screw in there. It aint going nowhere. My scientific early measurement-it is about 2 paint stirrers wide. I did remove all the springs, which was a pain-so I widened those hole just a tiny bit. Anyway, it only took 15 minutes using the little table saw and a smaller saw to finish the inside cut. A tiny amount of sanding. I should have painted it blue, but at that point I wasnt sure it would work. It's in there now. I use 5 springs, pulled tighter so I can drop D or dual bend with no tuning issues. I only trem on a couple of songs and I am loving it the way it sits now. Much more solid feeling than it was with the tremol-no."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-stratocaster-big-brass-tremolo-stop-w-hardware-/220780945365?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item336791dfd5#ht_500wt_949

I blocked mine at some point w/a wedged shaped block. Probably was pine. It fit perfectly, gave it more sustain, but for some reason, I liked the tone w/o it. It just sounded a little less Stratty for lack of better word. Plus I prefer to keep the back plate on. So I just flattened the bridge. Just my personal preference. For more sustain I go for my LP. :)


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