Why the pickups magnets are set differently¿

JimiBGoode · **Joined:** Sat May 05, 2012 4:27 pm **Posts:** 29

Wow that was topscore

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

JimiBGoode wrote:

Wow that was topscore

Hello, Jimi :!:

BeGood, now. What's up :?:

Toppscore

Smokin' Frets · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am **Posts:** 1247

Toppscore wrote:

Thanks for responding.

You're welcome anytime!

To add into the question of changing strings,
did you consider the difference of "tension" between 9s & 11s?

Tension has no impact on pickup setup. Different tension might require a correction of the trussrod.

Anyway, a dash up or a dash down on some volume or tone controls
on a guitar or pedal or amp will make this insignificant. Don't you think?

That's right! It can solve the problem but the more experience you have and the more you get professional, you'll search for the "sweet spot" of your guitar as well. Those factors are very subliminal but noticeable. What you will be looking for is best output from your guitar and best output from your amp. It's a mixture of both, they work together. Don't worry, I've been playing for over 25 years and I've just gotten into it a couple of years ago. I still get the feeling that there might be improvement in my setups. You can make it a "science of your life" or just keep the sound which you have and like. I remember my first years in playing guitar when information like this really frustrated me because I thought I'd never gonna learn it! :lol:

Just like the fretboard wood. Can you "really" tell the difference?

Yes, you can!

Also, with my Original Telecaster that came with the pickup/bridge ashtry cover,
any known differences with tones/sounds with the ashtry on or off?

Nope! Not that I know of. I personally think the only difference is in how it feels when playing. I personally don't like it and would always remove the ashtray. It keeps me from playing palm mutes the way I'm used to do it. On the other hand: I hardly play Teles, the Tele forum might help you more with this question. There's Strats with ashtrays as well. Regarding those I can confirm that there was absolutely no change in sound or tone hearable for me(!) after removing it.

Toppscore

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

Smokin' Frets wrote:

Toppscore wrote:

Thanks for responding.

You're welcome anytime!

To add into the question of changing strings,
did you consider the difference of "tension" between 9s & 11s?

Tension has no impact on pickup setup. Different tension might require a correction of the trussrod.

Anyway, a dash up or a dash down on some volume or tone controls
on a guitar or pedal or amp will make this insignificant. Don't you think?

That's right! It can solve the problem but the more experience you have and the more you get professional, you'll search for the "sweet spot" of your guitar as well. Those factors are very subliminal but noticeable. What you will be looking for is best output from your guitar and best output from your amp. It's a mixture of both, they work together. Don't worry, I've been playing for over 25 years and I've just gotten into it a couple of years ago. I still get the feeling that there might be improvement in my setups. You can make it a "science of your life" or just keep the sound which you have and like. I remember my first years in playing guitar when information like this really frustrated me because I thought I'd never gonna learn it! :lol:

Just like the fretboard wood. Can you "really" tell the difference?

Yes, you can!

Also, with my Original Telecaster that came with the pickup/bridge ashtry cover,
any known differences with tones/sounds with the ashtry on or off?

Nope! Not that I know of. I personally think the only difference is in how it feels when playing. I personally don't like it and would always remove the ashtray. It keeps me from playing palm mutes the way I'm used to do it. On the other hand: I hardly play Teles, the Tele forum might help you more with this question. There's Strats with ashtrays as well. Regarding those I can confirm that there was absolutely no change in sound or tone hearable for me(!) after removing it.
Toppscore

Thanks, Smokin. Good stuff.
I am procuring parts & pieces to build a Strat from the wood up.
No routing on my end - hahaha. Your comments make a difference.
Toppscore

alfsboy · **Joined:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:00 pm **Posts:** 44

I always thought the raised poles were to match the 7.5 radius used at the time .I just pushed the poles down on a Telecaster Texas special bridge and pushed em back out to sell it . Seemed to even out the sound a bit but I didnt like the pickup anyway,the neck is to die for but the bridge is just to die.
I like Cambridge ,especially the Backs and Queens on a sunny day when the daffs are out .
If you can hear subliminal differences you aint playing hard enough

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

alfsboy wrote:

I always thought the raised poles were to match the 7.5 radius used at the time. I just pushed the poles down on a Telecaster Texas special bridge and pushed em back out to sell it. Seemed to even out the sound a bit but I didnt like the pickup anyway,the neck is to die for but the bridge is just to die. I like Cambridge ,especially the Backs and Queens on a sunny day when the daffs are out. If you can hear subliminal differences you aint playing hard enough

Guess I am wrong as I thought discussed neck radius has to do with the
neck back-side and nothing to do with the nut, fretboard, pickups or bridge.
I am off base. Toppscore

Smokin' Frets · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am **Posts:** 1247

Toppscore wrote:

IMHO, the radius has everything to do with the back-side of the neck
and nothing to do with the nut, fretboard, pickups or bridge.
Please, tell me I am off base.
Toppscore

That's not exactly right, Toppscore.
The back of the neck is the neck shape, not the radius.

The radius refers to the bow of the fretwires and the fretboard.
The fretboard and the frets are bowed, not straight.

If you draw a circle with a radius of lets say 10 inches, then cut out a piece from the circle line, this will be exactly the bow which a fret would have with a 10 inch radius neck.

The back of the neck is discribed with shapes, like C-shape, D-shape, V-shape, .....

Please check Warmoth.com, there you can see examples in the neck section of their site.

Smokin' Frets · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am **Posts:** 1247

I was thinking to make a quick sketch but I found something online:

Here's a neck with different radius (= compound radius)

As you can see: the bigger the radius, the flatter the bow gets because a larger circle has a shallower curve than a very small circle.

Smokin' Frets · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am **Posts:** 1247

Check this out:

http://www.ratcliffe.co.za/articles/radius.shtml

Smokin' Frets · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 am **Posts:** 1247

Oh, and I forgot:

No, the staggering has nothing to do with the fretboard radius.
If that was the case, the outer ploes would be the lowest, the inner poles would be the highest. The tops of the poles would form a curve.
They don't. They go up, down, up.....depending on model and manufacturer.

Well, to correct myself: there ARE staggered pickups which are staggered because of this reason but the initial idea behind the staggering was to distribute different volumes over the pickup in comparison to all flat poles.

The ones staggered for radius were a later idea, if I'm not mistaken. Those are kinda "all flat pole pickups corrected for radius".

The goal is rather to achieve the same overall distance of the pole tops to the strings, than achieving a certain balanced tone between single strings.

Look: ----> http://www.fender.com/de-DE/news/index. ... rticle=482

Martian · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 7:59 am

"Infallible Web Dogma" has created many (and I'm being generous here) 'plausible' explanations for this question. Hopefully, I'll be able to set the record straight:

Magnetically speaking, wound strings "pick up" easier than unwound strings. In either a wound or unwound string's case of the same metallic composition, the more mass of the string, the easier it picks in comparison to one of less mass. This is simply a law of physics and I would hope that no one would argue this.

Per my above statement, wound and unwound are two distinctions to consider with the magnet stagger of a 'vintage' Strat pickup. Couple this with the radius of the fingerboard where if set as also originally designed, the collective bridge setup will have the strings in a virtual mirror radius to the fingerboard and the pickups. Keep in mind also, that when these 'vintage' pickups were originally designed and produced, all G strings were wound and the OEM string set gauge was a full .012 gauge run.

Visualize a 'vintage' staggered pickup. The polepiece is highest with the wound string of the least mass. In other words, the G string, thinnest of the wound strings, has the highest polepiece in order to pick that string up equally among the other progressively thicker, other three wound ones. Clearly, you can see the magnet (polepiece) heights tapers down as the strings thicknesses or mass increases. Now look at the two unwound strings. As previously stated, they 'pick up' much easier being solid vs. any of the wound ones and so, their heights are significantly lower when compared to the other wound four. Here too though, you can see that the thicker or more mass of the unwound string, the easier it is picked up. Hence, the B magnet (polepiece) is lower than the high E's. Put all this good stuff together and coupled with the coil, you now have a definitive, "Magnetic Window" which in essence is what so many Strat players identify a traditional and oftentimes, superior Strat pickup with.

With the advent of lighter gauge strings, not only does an unwound G string become 'standard' but each string's individual gauge is radically closer than the one next to it vs. that of the .012 gauge set. Now although the magnetic window of the pickup remains unchanged, volume wise string to string imbalances begin to exist. Clearly and for example, the G string's volume will knock you into next week yet you can barely hear the B.

Keeping in mind all the aforementioned and compounding it, further down the road the neck radius begins to expand and get flatter. Thus, the spring spread from the bridge shall no longer be at a 7.25" radius with the pickup's same OEM magnet stagger curve and by necessity, string imbalance continues to increase.

There are many 'modern day' pickups with 'adjusted' polepiece spacing in accordance with the above. In some cases, outright level height polepieces create the best magnetic window to accommodate the modern day changes. Yet, and at the risk of being redundant, some players seem to feel that the only bona-fide, genuine, vintage, etc. sounding Strat pickup must have the original stagger in spite of it being mismatched in a 'modern' dimensioned and light gauged string set guitar and simply deal with it.

Xhefri · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 10:12 am

Martian, The was the best, well written explanation I have ever heard about the staggered poles pieces. I thought it might have had something to do with the radius, but as you pointed out, it is not completely symmetrical with the radius. Why do you think so many pickup manufacturers when to the flat poles? And do you think that little height difference makes much of a difference in the actual volume of each string? (Just wondering how critical it is?) I always smile when I look at humbuckers, because they have the pole adjustment screws which are almost always the same height all the way across. When I was a kid I remember adjusting the ones on my DX Ephiphone Wilshire. But I am sure those adjustment screws are there for the same reason staggered poles are on single coils.

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

Smokin' Frets wrote:

Toppscore wrote:

IMHO, the radius has everything to do with the back-side of the neck
and nothing to do with the nut, fretboard, pickups or bridge.
Please, tell me I am off base.
Toppscore

That's not exactly right, Toppscore.
The back of the neck is the neck shape, not the radius.

The radius refers to the bow of the fretwires and the fretboard.
The fretboard and the frets are bowed, not straight.

If you draw a circle with a radius of lets say 10 inches, then cut out a piece from the circle line, this will be exactly the bow which a fret would have with a 10 inch radius neck.

The back of the neck is discribed with shapes, like C-shape, D-shape, V-shape, .....

Please check Warmoth.com, there you can see examples in the neck section of their site.

Thank you. I had it backwards all this time. Things to keep learning. My bad.
Yesterday, I just recieved a 1996 American Stratocaster with a scalloped fretboard.
I understand about radius. Therefore, a 7" radius applies to a more rounded fretboard, right?

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

Smokin' Frets wrote:

I was thinking to make a quick sketch but I found something online:
Here's a neck with different radius (= compound radius)

As you can see: the bigger the radius, the flatter the bow gets because a larger circle has a shallower curve than a very small circle.

Awesome. Had never seen this before.

Toppscore · **Joined:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am **Posts:** 2337

Smokin' Frets wrote:

Check this out: http://www.ratcliffe.co.za/articles/radius.shtml

Interesting how the chart went from flat to 7" to 16" when 16" is closer to flat.
Thanks again. This opens up some interesting ideas. Toppscore

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