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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:50 pm
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chromeface wrote:
Yes, later Showmasters (such as this beautiful Showmaster Blackout in Atlantic Blue Metallic shown below) came with 2-octave fretboards. These models came from the Cort factory in Korea.
The Showmaster Elite features a Tele-shaped headstock and a 22-fret ebony fingerboard with "tribal sun" inlays. This Custom Shop masterpiece sports a spalted maple top and dual Seymour Duncan humbucking pickups.

There were also Squier versions with a variety of bridges & pickup configurations and reverse headstocks, including a Jason Ellis signature model among others. These guitars were formerly known as Stagemasters.

Fender discontinued the Showmasters and their Squier variants in 2009.



Good to know they are available on the after market.
2009 is still pretty new.
How is the Korean reputation for quality?

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:56 pm
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John C wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Holy Cow!!! I did not know SuperStrat was an actual genre. Very exciting. I discovered several Fender 1980s/1990s/2000s Strat guitar models I never knew existed! Plus, the comparisons to Charvel and Jackson, both of whom Fender purchased. Also, I did not know that Jackson was the force behind the highly modified Strat-type market in the 1980s. The Glam Rockers of the 1980s/1990s is when I became alive to my own "bar-scene" music, rather than my parents. All I knew were Glam & Hard Rockers and the End of the "Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Moody Blues" eras and the beginning of the decline of the Rolling Stones' greatness.
Van Halen, Sammy Hagar, MTV Rock Videos, Springsteen, Prince, Police, AC/DC, Motley, Dio, U2
Motorhead, Dire Straits, Bon Jovi, Metallica, Guns/Roses, Iron Maiden, Megadeath, Judas Priest
. . . . gotta love those rockers 8) - hahaha
Nowadays, it's the blues, classic rock, originals and speed scale shredding 8)
Actually Charvel and Jackson have pretty much always been the same company - Wayne Charvel started his shop probably back in the 1960s, and started making parts in the 1970s (things like metal replacement jack plates for Les Pauls, stuff like that). He wound up taking investment funds from the same company that was also bankrolling Schecter (and some other company that made PA enclosures) in the middle 1970s. They were pushing Wayne to buy more equipment on credit (from them), which he eventually did. By about 1978 Wayne had had enough.

Grover Jackson had been a rep for Anvil Cases (I think it was Anvil but it could have been another flight case company) but wanted to learn the building business. He had come on board with Wayne in about 1977. At some point Wayne couldn't pay Grover, so he said he would work for a percentage of the company. When Wayne wanted out, Grover managed to parly his share of the company plus a bank loan to cover Wayne's debts to the original financial backers so Grover bought him out. So Grover Jackson owned Charvel. Now regardless of what you read Wayne never really made his own parts in his shop even though he owned pin routers - he did make a bunch of bodies but he went from his place over to Schecter's place and cut 75-100 raw bodies over a weekend. Dave Schecter made Wayne a template that was slightly different than the one he used for his own stuff. Ed Van Halen's original body was one of that batch that Wayne cut using Schecter's machinery, but Wayne had never made a neck (EVH's neck came from Boogie Bodies, which is now Warmoth). All that happened after Grover bought out Wayne.

Jackson-branded guitars start when Randy Rhoads came to Grover wanting a set-neck guitar; Grover made him that white shark-fin neck-through "Concorde" guitar but didn't want to mess up the good thing he had going with the Charvel-branded bolt neck guitars, so he put his own name on the neck-through guitars. From 1981 until 1986 it was one company called "Charvel/Jackson"; "Charvel" was their bolt-on line and "Jackson" was their neck through line. By 1985-86 Grover wanted to expand to keep up with market demand, so he took on financial backers; at that point the company name changed to "Jackson/Charvel" and they applied the "Charvel" brand to a line of MIJ guitars and kept the "Jackson" name for all their USA models (both bolt-ons and neck-throughs). Jackson himself left about 1990; that was when they started having imported Jacksons and moved the Charvels to more of the low-end before discontinuing them. Jackson/Charvel had at least two owners (Grover's original partners out of Ft. Worth TX and later a Japanese firm) before Fender bought them out.

If this glam/hair metal side of the "guitar hot rod" history isn't twisted enough for you, you should try following the "fancy wood" side that really starts with Schecter. :lol:



Thanks for sharing a bit of history.
I have been eyeing some Schecter guitars, lately.
Heard they are Korean made.
Heard they had better days a decade ago. I could be wrong.
Their guitars look good.

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:05 pm
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Lace sensors...I like mine.


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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:11 pm
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davidwhitson wrote:
Lace sensors...I like mine.

Many do. Few Plus guitars are for sale. Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:46 pm
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chromeface wrote:
@John C

Don't forget to mention the Charvettes!

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Quote:
"Charvel" was their bolt-on line and "Jackson" was their neck through line.


There were exceptions.

Models 5 and 6 employed a neck-thru construction and sported active electronics.

Model 6 was an import version of the Soloist.

Image

The rest of the series (1, 2 3 and 4) were bolt-ons while Models 7 and 8 were based on the familiar designs of Telecaster and Stratocaster respectively. Both guitars featured a reverse droopy headstock.


chromeface - when I said "Charvel was their bolt-on line and Jackson was there neck-through line" I was referring only to the time period of 1981-1985 when they only had USA production. I should have been more clear about that; of course you're right that after 1986 both the Charvel (which was moved to MIJ) and the Jackson (which was USA-made) lines had both bolt-on and neck through models - which I meant to mention but didn't in the original post :oops: .

Yep - I did forget the Charvettes; that was their first MIK line, which was introduced after Grover had left the company. And I believe some of them might have even been made in Indonesia or somewhere else.


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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:13 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
Thanks for sharing a bit of history.
I have been eyeing some Schecter guitars, lately.
Heard they are Korean made.
Heard they had better days a decade ago. I could be wrong.
Their guitars look good.


Schecter literally isn't the same company any more; they really focus on their MIK lineup but they do still have a custom shop in California that churns out a couple of hundred fairly expensive pieces every year.

Rewinding to about 1975 Schecter was in CA and was producing bodies and necks from high quality and exotic wood; they also produced some nice replacement parts (typical for the day things like brass trems, etc.). The wierd link is they had the same financial backing as Wayne Charvel did for his shop. At any rate, Dave Schecter in around 1977 hired another like-minded young guy name of Tom Anderson in his shop; Tom went to work developing some of their pickup lines and also was building some completed guitars from their parts. So for say 1977 until about 1982 or so Schecter was balancing between parts and building guitars.

They also had a fairly unique arrangement with their dealers so the dealers could sell completed guitars, parts, and also assemble guitars from Schecter parts and sell them as sort-of "Schecters" - but it was up to the stores to warranty the guitar, not the main company. Some of those dealers included Valley Arts Music in CA and Rudy's Music in NYC - and Rudy's had this like-minded young guy working for him as a luthier named John Suhr.

Back to Schecter - that financial backer, after losing Charvel to Grover Jackson, put more pressure on Schecter to build and sell guitars. The eventually started up a Japanese facility (selling to the Asian market). Dave Schecter left in early 1983, and the company made plans to move from CA to Dallas, TX in 1984. After spending several months in Japan, Tom Anderson decided he wanted no part of moving to Texas and left the firm in 1984. Over 1983 through 1986 Schecter concentrated on building guitars over the parts business. They cut off the parts supply to their dealers like Valley Arts and Rudy's who were building guitars from their parts and added more dealers. Eventually Fender took notice that Schecter was using their headstocks and sent a "cease and desisit" letter. At some point in early 1986 Schecter came crashing down and went bankrupt - unable to change headstocks, get new parts, and meet their orders. They were bought out by one of the owners of ESP Guitars, who owns them to this day. He moved them back to California, where they retooled as a small custom shop. It wasn't until the late 1990s that they made the big move into all these MIK guitars they currently offer. I should also state that they aren't owned by ESP; it is more like their owner owns 100% of Schecter and I believe 33% of ESP so he owns two companies that don't interact.

Back to Tom Anderson - he bought some of Schecter's equipment that they didn't want to move to Dallas and started making bodies and necks in his garage. He also wound pickups. By 1988 he decided to get out of the body & neck business and only produce complete guitars (but he does sell his pickups aftermarket as well).

John Suhr and his boss, Rudy Pensa, went into business as Pensa-Suhr guitars. Fun fact - from 1984 to 1988 John & Rudy bought their unfinished bodies and necks from Tom Anderson. In fact, Mark Knopfler's famous yellow carved top Pensa-Suhr has Anderson wood. Now John hand-carved the top, but in NYC they didn't have room for routers and all the woodworking tools to make numbers of bodies and necks. After Anderson stopped selling bodies and necks Pensa-Suhr got their wood parts from Warmoth. John had a falling out with Rudy and left in ealry 1991. Rudy's still produces small numbers of guitars under the "Pensa" name.

John Suhr moved on to California, made amps with Bob Bradshaw for a while, then joined the Fender Custom Shop as a Master Builder, and eventually he left in 1996 to start his own company where they do everything - cut the wood, finish it, build pickups, etc.

Valley Arts also built their own line of guitars; they got parts from Warmoth and eventually started building some necks in-house. Right before they sold out to Samick they hired another one of those "like-minded" guys named Don Grosh. Don left Valley Arts when Samick took over and started his own company - first in California but he relocated in the mid-2000s to the Denver area.

More than you wanted to know I'm sure.


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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:49 pm
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John C wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Thanks for sharing a bit of history.
I have been eyeing some Schecter guitars, lately.
Heard they are Korean made.
Heard they had better days a decade ago. I could be wrong.
Their guitars look good.


Schecter literally isn't the same company any more; they really focus on their MIK lineup but they do still have a custom shop in California that churns out a couple of hundred fairly expensive pieces every year.

Rewinding to about 1975 Schecter was in CA and was producing bodies and necks from high quality and exotic wood; they also produced some nice replacement parts (typical for the day things like brass trems, etc.). The wierd link is they had the same financial backing as Wayne Charvel did for his shop. At any rate, Dave Schecter in around 1977 hired another like-minded young guy name of Tom Anderson in his shop; Tom went to work developing some of their pickup lines and also was building some completed guitars from their parts. So for say 1977 until about 1982 or so Schecter was balancing between parts and building guitars.

They also had a fairly unique arrangement with their dealers so the dealers could sell completed guitars, parts, and also assemble guitars from Schecter parts and sell them as sort-of "Schecters" - but it was up to the stores to warranty the guitar, not the main company. Some of those dealers included Valley Arts Music in CA and Rudy's Music in NYC - and Rudy's had this like-minded young guy working for him as a luthier named John Suhr.

Back to Schecter - that financial backer, after losing Charvel to Grover Jackson, put more pressure on Schecter to build and sell guitars. The eventually started up a Japanese facility (selling to the Asian market). Dave Schecter left in early 1983, and the company made plans to move from CA to Dallas, TX in 1984. After spending several months in Japan, Tom Anderson decided he wanted no part of moving to Texas and left the firm in 1984. Over 1983 through 1986 Schecter concentrated on building guitars over the parts business. They cut off the parts supply to their dealers like Valley Arts and Rudy's who were building guitars from their parts and added more dealers. Eventually Fender took notice that Schecter was using their headstocks and sent a "cease and desisit" letter. At some point in early 1986 Schecter came crashing down and went bankrupt - unable to change headstocks, get new parts, and meet their orders. They were bought out by one of the owners of ESP Guitars, who owns them to this day. He moved them back to California, where they retooled as a small custom shop. It wasn't until the late 1990s that they made the big move into all these MIK guitars they currently offer. I should also state that they aren't owned by ESP; it is more like their owner owns 100% of Schecter and I believe 33% of ESP so he owns two companies that don't interact.

Back to Tom Anderson - he bought some of Schecter's equipment that they didn't want to move to Dallas and started making bodies and necks in his garage. He also wound pickups. By 1988 he decided to get out of the body & neck business and only produce complete guitars (but he does sell his pickups aftermarket as well).

John Suhr and his boss, Rudy Pensa, went into business as Pensa-Suhr guitars. Fun fact - from 1984 to 1988 John & Rudy bought their unfinished bodies and necks from Tom Anderson. In fact, Mark Knopfler's famous yellow carved top Pensa-Suhr has Anderson wood. Now John hand-carved the top, but in NYC they didn't have room for routers and all the woodworking tools to make numbers of bodies and necks. After Anderson stopped selling bodies and necks Pensa-Suhr got their wood parts from Warmoth. John had a falling out with Rudy and left in ealry 1991. Rudy's still produces small numbers of guitars under the "Pensa" name.

John Suhr moved on to California, made amps with Bob Bradshaw for a while, then joined the Fender Custom Shop as a Master Builder, and eventually he left in 1996 to start his own company where they do everything - cut the wood, finish it, build pickups, etc.

Valley Arts also built their own line of guitars; they got parts from Warmoth and eventually started building some necks in-house. Right before they sold out to Samick they hired another one of those "like-minded" guys named Don Grosh. Don left Valley Arts when Samick took over and started his own company - first in California but he relocated in the mid-2000s to the Denver area.
More than you wanted to know I'm sure.


You are not that "John", are you?
Fantastic story. How are you involved and why are you so knowledgable
about the industry and all of your past shares?
Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:02 pm
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The superstrat-style Modern was introduced in 2009.

Image

This guitar was quickly adopted by notable Suhr endorsing artists such as Guthrie Govan and Reb Beach, both having their own signature Moderns since 2010.

Recently, John introduced the 80's Shred for guitarists seeking that old-school hard rock/heavy metal nostalgia. This guitar comes equipped with an alder body, maple neck and the choice of maple or ebony fingerboard. These choice tone woods embody the shred style and sound of the 1980s.

Image

Every 80's Shred is equipped with dual Adrich humbuckers, Gotoh Floyd Rose tremolo and a head turning reverse headstock. Modern elliptical neck shape, rolled fingerboard edges, stainless steel frets, 16” radius and optional scalloped fretboard combine to offer effortless playability suited for fast lines and huge bends.

Available in neon drip or tiger stripe finishes, these huge shredding tone monsters are accompanied by a matching Riot stomp distortion floor box.

Image

Only 50 examples will be made until December 31st, 2012.


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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:56 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
chromeface wrote:
The True Coil is a noiseless pickup. Noiseless pickups are stacked humbuckers. It's strongly advisable to send an e-mail to GFS about possible coil tap and split abilities, I'm pretty sure the TC120 can be tapped and splitted. I have a custom-made Strat clone with two Seymour Duncan Classic Stacks and a '59 Trembucker. The guitar had three mini toggle switches for coil tap/split affecting all the pickups.
Quote:
I purchased a Stratocaster clone guitar that has an HSH configuration.

Since your guitar has such features and a locking tremolo, it should be considered as a superstrat than a regular Stratocaster. Superstrats have sleeker cutaways and lack off pickguards (there are exceptions, many Ibanez superstrats such as the RGs, JEMs and 7-string Universes sport a pickguard). Also, they feature slender necks with a flatter fingerboard radius and 24 jumbo frets which are necessary for shredding. Some custom superstrats came with 36 frets.


ChromeFace. I hear the term "noiseless" pickups quite a bit.
Are you saying ALL noiseless pickups are "stacked humbuckers".
If so, good to know. Thank you. PLMK.

I emailed the questiion to Guitar Fetish. Will share the answer tomorrow.

Good to know the Term "Super Stratocaster". I just purchased the 30-Fret Ibanez "RG" guitar pictured a couple of comments earlier within this thread. You call it a "Super Strat". The horns look pretty pointed. Heard or know of any positive or negative reviews regarding the Ibanez "RG" series? What do you know about the Ibanez RG2011-SC?
Mu guess is the part number is:
"RG" = Ibanez product line
"2011" the year of the guitar's special run
"SC" = Super Cutaway (just guessing)
http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-RG2011SC
Image






ChromeFace. I got the response from Guitar Fetish about splitting
that TC120 super pickup. It does not appear to be a good idea.
What do you think?

"Toppscore * OK. The true coil is a semi-noise cancelling pickup. It is basically a very asymetrical, stacked humbucker- (uses a dummy coil). When split, you would only be able to run the top coil as the other coil is on the bottom- might make sound but wouldn't be usable in the normal sense. There is no tap lead on these though they are fourwire so you can ground the dummy coil for traditional strat pup operation. Using with humbuckers/split buckers, you could ground the dummy coil so it will cancel with a coil split humbucker. Other than that, not sure what use coil-splitting a true coil would be. In no way do the previous statements discount the tone of this pickup. It is a fantastic sounding strat pup especially considering it's mostly noiseless and really is perfect for the application you mention in your email. Let me know if you (or others) have any other questions or concerns.
Thanks, John * Guitarfetish.com * Customer Support"

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:00 pm
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chromeface wrote:
The superstrat-style Modern was introduced in 2009.
This guitar was quickly adopted by notable Suhr endorsing artists such as Guthrie Govan and Reb Beach, both having their own signature Moderns since 2010.

Recently, John introduced the 80's Shred for guitarists seeking that old-school hard rock/heavy metal nostalgia. This guitar comes equipped with an alder body, maple neck and the choice of maple or ebony fingerboard. These choice tone woods embody the shred style and sound of the 1980s.

Image

Every 80's Shred is equipped with dual Adrich humbuckers, Gotoh Floyd Rose tremolo and a head turning reverse headstock. Modern elliptical neck shape, rolled fingerboard edges, stainless steel frets, 16” radius and optional scalloped fretboard combine to offer effortless playability suited for fast lines and huge bends.

Available in neon drip or tiger stripe finishes, these huge shredding tone monsters are accompanied by a matching Riot stomp distortion floor box.
Only 50 examples will be made until December 31st, 2012.




That "head turning reverse headstock" is beginning to look like those
Jimi Hendrix Strats. I am sure the reversed the nut, right?

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:42 am
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Swedish neo-classical metal supremo Yngwie Malmsteen occasionally plays scalloped CBS Strats with reverse headstocks.

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Surely Suhr was somewhat inspired from him when he went designing those old-school Moderns. :P


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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:49 am
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Toppscore wrote:
You are not that "John", are you?
Fantastic story. How are you involved and why are you so knowledgable
about the industry and all of your past shares?
Toppscore 8)


No - I'm not that "John". I'm a marketing researcher by trade; guitars are just a passion of mine. At one point 5-6 years ago I was going to try to write a free-lance article on the growth of the custom guitar industry from the 1970s to present. I never did get anything polished enough to submit to say Vintage Guitar or Premier Guitar magazine but I do have all of my notes floating around on my personal laptop.

Regarding Fender models and changes - well, I screwed up an passed on what was an "old Fender" at the time without realizing that it had already become a "vintage guitar". I've told the story before, but this is how a little mis-information can hurt you: back in 1985 I was looking at an old Strat - it was a big headstock one with what I now know was the "transition" logo on the headstock. Sunburst, naturally reliced, and the owner had replaced the "worn-out" plastic parts with a late 70s set of black plastic (but had the old parts in a bag in the case). They wanted $500 for it, which I thought was a bit much for just an "old, worn Strat" that wasn't a "vintage" Pre-CBS. Of course this was a '67 Strat; someone else bought it, flipped it to the local vintage guitar dealer who reinstalled the original plastic and priced it at $875. Not that I was going to flip it, but it did let me know that back then those '66 and '67s were considered kind of "players classic guitars". I made it a point to get to be knowledgeable on this stuff from then on.


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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:47 am
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chromeface wrote:
Swedish neo-classical metal supremo Yngwie Malmsteen occasionally plays scalloped CBS Strats with reverse headstocks.

Image

Surely Suhr was somewhat inspired from him when he went designing those old-school Moderns. :P


In May, I purchased a scalloped necked 1990s Stratocaster:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160802172653?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
because I was studying unique Stratocasters. Some had mentioned Yngwie Malmsteen,
who I had never heard of before. I researched his bio and discovered that he is into some
of the things I enjoy. Therefore, I just got the following guitar in with a scalloped neck.
I have not taken it out of the shipping box, but when I do, I will post it.
Actually, cannot wait to see hos a scalloped guitar plays & sounds.
Hopefully, it is an American Strat or at least an MIM Strat. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:33 am
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American Strats came with 22 frets while the Mexico ones use 21. This guitar is definitely a MIM.

The pickguard is routed for a single humbucker though the pickup is missing. Also, the neck has a locking nut installed and there are only two knobs for volume and MDX boost controls, like Andy Fairweather Low's modified EC Strats. I think the guitar deserves a Floyd Rose tremolo.

I saw AFL with two such guitars in May of 2009, when he joined Eric Clapton's touring band for their 11-night performances at the RAH.

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:59 am
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chromeface wrote:
Image
American Strats came with 22 frets while the Mexico ones use 21. This guitar is definitely a MIM.
The pickguard is routed for a single humbucker though the pickup is missing. Also, the neck has a locking nut installed and there are only two knobs for volume and MDX boost controls, like Andy Fairweather Low's modified EC Strats. I think the guitar deserves a Floyd Rose tremolo.
I saw AFL with two such guitars in May of 2009, when he joined Eric Clapton's touring band for their 11-night performances at the RAH.
Image



Thanks, ChromeFace. Good to know. It just arrived and I have to get after it.
Will see what kind of tremolo is installed. Floyd Rose has so many models
and many guitars have "Floyd Rose" licensed tremolos from Asia.

Thanks again. I will share a full report, especially regarding the cool scalloped neck.
Toppscore 8)

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