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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:46 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
nucci60 wrote:
Just coming back to the forum after a few years absence. Havn't been keeping up with what is popular now when it comes to pickups. Are any of the younger players using red or blue sensors today?


I just purchased a 1990 Fender Ultra Stratocaster guitar w/four (4) Lace Sensor pickups installed.
Cannot wait to get it next week. I am eager to read about the responses in this thread.

Especially about comparisons between Lace Sensor Pickups, Fender Pole Magnut pickups,
and the newer Fender Noiseless Pickups.

Who has tried all three?
Who likes what?

Thanks. Toppscore 8)



Well I have tried two out of three of these pickups. I have a 1970 Stratocaster with pole pieces. I also own a Strat Ultra(1990) with four pickups, all Lace Sensors. I like each for what they are. The Laces can really work with pedal effects much better than the '69 pickups. They both sound similar in that both have a chimey sound in the second and 4th positions. I really prefer the Ultra for more versatility, especially the Red Dually pickups for its heavier crunch sound over the older pickups. I really like the neck pickup on the 1970 Strat, and its really good for smooth jazz and rock. Neither is really good for older vintage jazz; both are great for the blues. I don't get as much noise on the '70 Strat, but you can hear a definite clarity when using the Ultra.

The Ultra is unique on the 3rd position, in that the bridge and the neck pickups are selected, like a Telecaster in the middle position. Great for rhythm>leads. The Blue in the neck is like a P90 in sound and sounds 'husky', w/ more meat than the older pickups. The Gold in the middle is always paired w/ either the bridge pickup(2nd position) or the neck(4th position). The 1st =Bridge Red dually has a 3 position splitter switch for the upper, both or lower splitting. The lower pickup has a Tele twang, both sound like a super HB sound, and the upper gives the 'chimey' sound all by itself. You can also use the splitter switch on the 3rd & 4th positions, too. This is in Firestorm Red w/ ebony fingerboard (all Ultra's have it); check to see if the neckplate has the word Ultra emblazoned on it, it is a near custom shop model, y'know.
I like the 1970 Strat neck better than the modern C neck on the Ultra, because its thicker, more like a U shape.

In contrast the 1970 Strat really sounds thinner, more airy sound. This I believe is due the lower resistance of about 5-6kHz. The Laces have resistances of Blue=12kHz, gold= 5-6khz, and red=14kHz and have a lot more output than the older pickups. They don't allow for heavy pedal use and just sound light for lack of a better word. But I love the fact that Jimi may have used this type of Strat and he seemed to have more than a few versions. Mine is in Olympic white w/ rosewood fingerboard. I pulled the original 3-way switch and replaced it w/ a 5-way. It needed a fret job so I put in medium jumbo in 2010. I really like the 7.25" radius on this neck, without any issues of fretting out. This neck does not have a bullet truss rod making it a little closer to 1970 than late 1971, when this feature appeared. It has the large '70's headstock. The Ultra has a 9.5" radius.

I have two different eras of Strats, and I feel fortunate to have both without paying excessively for either. The Strat Ultra is a better guitar. But the older Strat has its thing too. If you want to hear the new noiseless Fender pickups just listen to recent Jeff Beck or Clapton, on YouTube since 2010. They don't sound all that different to me. I wouldn't obsess about it either. I don't think Lace Sensors are dated, they're just vintage. The look is unmistakeable, but they do emulate those old covers on those Fender Stratocaster Elite pickups from the early '80's, which did not have a good reputation. They sound great, which is all you have to experience.

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1986 Yamaha SBG2100
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1971 Stratocaster
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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:36 pm
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qblue wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
nucci60 wrote:
Just coming back to the forum after a few years absence. Havn't been keeping up with what is popular now when it comes to pickups. Are any of the younger players using red or blue sensors today?

I just purchased a 1990 Fender Ultra Stratocaster guitar w/four (4) Lace Sensor pickups installed.
Cannot wait to get it next week. I am eager to read about the responses in this thread.
Especially about comparisons between Lace Sensor Pickups, Fender Pole Magnet pickups,
and the newer Fender Noiseless Pickups. Who has tried all three? Who likes what?
Thanks. Toppscore 8)
Well I have tried two out of three of these pickups. I have a 1970 Stratocaster with pole pieces. I also own a Strat Ultra(1990) with four pickups, all Lace Sensors. I like each for what they are. The Laces can really work with pedal effects much better than the '69 pickups. They both sound similar in that both have a chimey sound in the second and 4th positions. I really prefer the Ultra for more versatility, especially the Red Dually pickups for its heavier crunch sound over the older pickups. I really like the neck pickup on the 1970 Strat, and its really good for smooth jazz and rock. Neither is really good for older vintage jazz; both are great for the blues. I don't get as much noise on the '70 Strat, but you can hear a definite clarity when using the Ultra.

The Ultra is unique on the 3rd position, in that the bridge and the neck pickups are selected, like a Telecaster in the middle position. Great for rhythm>leads. The Blue in the neck is like a P90 in sound and sounds 'husky', w/ more meat than the older pickups. The Gold in the middle is always paired w/ either the bridge pickup(2nd position) or the neck(4th position). The 1st =Bridge Red dually has a 3 position splitter switch for the upper, both or lower splitting. The lower pickup has a Tele twang, both sound like a super HB sound, and the upper gives the 'chimey' sound all by itself. You can also use the splitter switch on the 3rd & 4th positions, too. This is in Firestorm Red w/ ebony fingerboard (all Ultra's have it); check to see if the neckplate has the word Ultra emblazoned on it, it is a near custom shop model, y'know. I like the 1970 Strat neck better than the modern C neck on the Ultra, because its thicker, more like a U shape.

In contrast the 1970 Strat really sounds thinner, more airy sound. This I believe is due the lower resistance of about 5-6kHz. The Laces have resistances of Blue=12kHz, gold= 5-6khz, and red=14kHz and have a lot more output than the older pickups. They don't allow for heavy pedal use and just sound light for lack of a better word. But I love the fact that Jimi may have used this type of Strat and he seemed to have more than a few versions. Mine is in Olympic white w/ rosewood fingerboard. I pulled the original 3-way switch and replaced it w/ a 5-way. It needed a fret job so I put in medium jumbo in 2010. I really like the 7.25" radius on this neck, without any issues of fretting out. This neck does not have a bullet truss rod making it a little closer to 1970 than late 1971, when this feature appeared. It has the large '70's headstock. The Ultra has a 9.5" radius.

I have two different eras of Strats, and I feel fortunate to have both without paying excessively for either. The Strat Ultra is a better guitar. But the older Strat has its thing too. If you want to hear the new noiseless Fender pickups just listen to recent Jeff Beck or Clapton, on YouTube since 2010. They don't sound all that different to me. I wouldn't obsess about it either. I don't think Lace Sensors are dated, they're just vintage. The look is unmistakeable, but they do emulate those old covers on those Fender Stratocaster Elite pickups from the early '80's, which did not have a good reputation. They sound great, which is all you have to experience.
Funny, I just sold my 1971 Hardtail Stratocaster because I was not getting the sounds/tones
I desired. Nor could I justify having a vintage guitar around that didn't make a difference
when compared to my 1996 Custom MIM Fat Strat. Both good guitars, but my playing a 1971
and then playing a 2011 Stratocaster or the 1996 Fat Strat made no major difference to me.
So, I sold the 1971 for a garden of green and have purchased nine guitars from that sale!!!


Three of the guitars are:

1990 Fender Ultra Stratocaster:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280890192783?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

1996 Fender Plus Deluxe Stratocaster in Mint Condition:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170852879552?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Left-Handed 2011 Fender American Standard Stratocaster
to flip for a Jimi Henderix Strat conversion:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261033949038?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Gotta tell you. I am sooooooo happy to now OWN these three (3) Stratocasters
ANYTIME ANYDAY ANYWAY over the 1971 Stratocaster :!: :!: :!:

Plus Plus Plus the other five custom Stratocasters & Telecasters
purchased with the proceeds from the 1971 sale are also, GREAT :!: :!: :!:

Why have an old vintage guitar?
Some are great, some are average, some are just OK.

Why have an old vintage amp?
Some are great, some are average, some are just OK.

Modern guitars and amps are soooooooo very inexpensive
and in most/many cases are sooooooo much better made
than in the 1950s/1960s/1970s. Many guitarist and players
claim just because an amp or guitar was made during Fender's
first thirty years, that ALL are good, great, fabulous, awesome, bitchin'
greatest amp/guitar since God created wood, etc.

Read ALL of the EBay ads and you will read some incredible claims
that this guitar/amp is the best sounding ever. Amazing.

Fender produced more hiccups back then than they do now.
Sure, there were good old amps/guitars, but there were bad old amps/guitars. And,
ALL vingage amps/guitars offered for sale in 2012 have outrageous claims towards their greatness.

Many of those amps/guitars claimed to be great today because of thier 1950s-1970s
birthday, are really only average or below average products. But, they join the "hype"
because it benefits their amp's/guitar's perceived value.

I currently own ten(+) vintage 1950s & 1960s Fender amps.
I currently own eight(+) 1980s-2011 modern Fender amps.
I used to own a vintage Stratocaster and a Telecaster. Sold them.
I currently own ten 1990s-2012 modern Fender Strats & Teles

I do know "just a bit" about old and new vintage Fender amps & guitars.
I do know "just a bit" about buying and selling old and new vintage Fender amps & guitars.

Coming back to the big point here is that owing 1970s Strats and 1990s Fender Ultras
is a real cool deal. And, IMHO, there is no shame towards not liking a vintage Strat.
Some hang on and swear by "vintage anything" at all costs.
IMHO, they become very narrow minded sticks-in-the-mud. No change. No big deal.
But, just know that their hype about "vintage" is shallow, and many times without foundation.

As far as Fender products that are "NOT VINTAGE", I've experience and owned:
1983-1986 Paul Rivera amps
1990s Fender Ultra & Plus Deluxe Guitars
2000s Fender Cyber Twin amps
2011s Fender SuperSonic amps
2011s Fender G-DEC-Thirty Blues Combo Amps
1980s-2012 Fender Reissue and Fender Annivesary Stratocasters & Telecasters.

Believe me. TONS of great products post Fender 1970s.

Please, everybody do share pluses & minuses of both
pre-1980 Fender amps/guitars and post 1980 Fender amps/guitars.

Thank you. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:39 am
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Howdy!

"Are Lace Sensors out of style?"

Nah, the Big Hairy folk are bringing them back!

Image

:D

Andy

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:57 am
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Andybighair wrote:
Howdy! "Are Lace Sensors out of style?"
Nah, the Big Hairy folk are bringing them back!
Image
:D Andy


Hey! Nice picture :D


Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:08 am
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This sunburst lefty American Standard has an EMG 81/85 set. Jimi never used Strats with humbuckers.


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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:21 am
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qblue wrote:
The 1st =Bridge Red dually has a 3 position splitter switch for the upper, both or lower splitting. The lower pickup has a Tele twang, both sound like a super HB sound, and the upper gives the 'chimey' sound all by itself.


If you combine the dual humbucking Red Lace Sensor with the Clapton mid-boost, you'll get a full blown, screaming fat lead sound when the boost is cranked up to the max. Great for scorching metal leads.


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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:40 pm
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chromeface wrote:
Image
This sunburst lefty American Standard has an EMG 81/85 set. Jimi never used Strats with humbuckers.


Chromy, you are one real observational kind-of-guy!!! Notice within the case the original set of Fender Factory SSS pickups & the original pickguard? "Selling a 2011 Fender Amer. Std. (Left handed) Stratocaster. I had a EMG81tw (bridge) and a EMG89r (neck) installed into it (these ran me $240). I also add Fender locking tuners. It comes with the hard shell case (w/key), all the original hardware, pick ups, literature, strap and a set of extra saddles from graphtec. It also comes with the original pickguard loaded with a set of Dimarzio Injector pick ups (these ran me about $180). I purchased this new and have taken good care of it so it is in very clean condition."

Check the original listing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261033949038?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Of course, you did not know all of that, but a pretty good deal for $833 landed. Right?
I am also hoping I get three sets of pickups: the humbuckers, the Dimarzio Injectors,
and the Fender Factory PUs. With the extra parts, I hope to make another Left-Handed guitar.
Toppscore 8)



***ChromeFace. Please help. For the above guitar, I am thinking of adding one
of the following sets of "Jimi Hendrix Era" special pickups. Worth it? Or, Not Worth It?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/290635063593?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270983607416?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300699239232?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:24 pm
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I've owned guitars with Lace Sensors and I'm not a fan. Color/position combinations I have tried include:

Neck
Gold, Silver, Blue
Middle
Gold, Blue,
Bridge
Gold, Blue, Silver, Red, Red-dually

They all sounded OK from an overall fundamental and EQ perspective but they all lacked the intangible, hard-to-describe qualites that good pickups have. Transient response, harmonic content, sparkle, chime. The one thing they had in abundance in the neck position was the one thing I hate .... honk. Strats and Teles can both honk in the neck with the wrong pickups and Sensors seemed to accentuate honk rather than eliminate it.


YMMV

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Last edited by BMW-KTM on Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:18 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I've owned guitars with Lace Sensors and I'm not a fan. Color/position combinations I have tried include:

Bridge
Gold, Silver, Blue
Middle
Gold, Blue,
Bridge
Gold, Blue, Silver, Red, Red-dually

They all sounded OK from an overall fundamental and EQ perspective but they all lacked the intangible, hard-to-describe qualites that good pickups have. Transient response, harmonic content, sparkle, chime. The one thing they had in abundance in the neck position was the one thing I hate .... honk. Strats and Teles can both honk in the neck with the wrong pickups and Sensors seemed to accentuate honk rather than eliminate it.
YMMV


What about the NECK Lace Sensor efforts?
Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:25 pm
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Toppscore wrote:

What about the NECK Lace Sensor efforts?
Toppscore 8)

Thanks for the heads up.
Edit done.

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:33 am
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Quote:
***ChromeFace. Please help. For the above guitar, I am thinking of adding one
of the following sets of "Jimi Hendrix Era" special pickups. Worth it? Or, Not Worth It?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290635063593?ss ... 1436.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270983607416?ss ... 1436.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300699239232?ss ... 1436.l2649


Of all these pickup sets the "boutique" Fralins are by far the most expensive. Try the CS 69's instead.

The Kinman Woodstock Plus set with the hot bridge pickup and the DiMarzio Area 67 are another nice alternatives - same Jimi "Voodoo" signature sound without the hum!

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:04 am
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chromeface wrote:
The Kinman Woodstock Plus set with the hot bridge pickup and the DiMarzio Area 67 are another nice alternatives - same Jimi "Voodoo" signature sound without the hum!

I agree the Woodstock set are pretty good but I didn't care for their bridge pups. Neither the regular Woodstock (AVn-69b) nor the Woodstock Plus (Hx-85) sounded right to me. They were both harsh on top. The Hx-85 especially so. Also, Mr. Kinman's claim that the Hx-85 will leave humbuckers in the dust for being hot is an overstatement. They're hot but they're not that hot. The AVn-69 sounded pretty good in the middle and neck though.

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:03 am
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Did Jimi Hendrix change the pickups after he flipped the guitar?
If not, then he used standard Fender Factory pickups, right? PLMK.

Can one get the Hendrix tone from flipping a modern American Stratocaster?

Or, is getting 1969 reissue pickups essential?

Or, getting boutique (smaller or more well know companies) pickups
that are specially designed to "get that Hendrix tone" the way to go?

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:43 am
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The pickups Jimi used in his Strats employed reverse-staggered AlNiCo magnets, which were chiefly responsible for his signature "Voodoo" tone. Reverse staggered pickups create a slightly stronger "A" string and a slightly smoother "B" string- subtle yet powerful, making power chords hotter and thicker.

Guitar Fetish (GFS) has such pickup set with reverse AlNiCo's.

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Yes you can flip upside down any Strat no matter your hand-playing technique - either being right-handed or southpaw.


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Post subject: Re: Are lace sensors "out of style"?
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:35 am
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chromeface wrote:
The pickups Jimi used in his Strats employed reverse-staggered AlNiCo magnets, which were chiefly responsible for his signature "Voodoo" tone. Reverse staggered pickups create a slightly stronger "A" string and a slightly smoother "B" string- subtle yet powerful, making power chords hotter and thicker.

Guitar Fetish (GFS) has such pickup set with reverse AlNiCo's.

Image

Yes you can flip upside down any Strat no matter your hand-playing technique - either being right-handed or southpaw.


OK. Thanks. These are very reasonably priced.
Will they fit both left and right handed guitars?
Will I need to tell Guitar Fetish that I am flipping a Left handed guitar?
What do you think?

Thanks. Toppscore :)

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