It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:53 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:19 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am
Posts: 1281
Ceri wrote:
I've a feeling when Moochy asked whether the finish was gloss or satin he was thinking about the back of the neck rather than the fingerboard. Significant in that some people find gloss can have a "stickiness" that slows down hand movement and hampers their playing. If so, it is easily addressed by rubbing it down very gently with P1000 or P1500 wet-and-dry paper, just enough to take the shine off. (Don't sand right through the finish.)


Can you link us up with before and after photos??? You got me SAS'n (sandpaper acquisition syndrome), bad! Thank you! Do you recommend a particular brand of sandpaper? Is this done in a circular motion, back and forth, up and down, a combination, one before the other? Is this done dry or with water?


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:12 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
RCB-CA-USA wrote:
Can you link us up with before and after photos??? You got me SAS'n (sandpaper acquisition syndrome), bad! Thank you! Do you recommend a particular brand of sandpaper? Is this done in a circular motion, back and forth, up and down, a combination, one before the other? Is this done dry or with water?

Hi RCB: can't find any how-to photos out there at this second. Below is a picture of me levelling the new lacquer on one of my own necks (heavily rolled fingerboard edges and dark red dot markers on that one, to match that guitar's body :) ). It shows the front rather than the back of the neck, but at least it gives a hint of the gloss-to-matte journey. Best I can offer right now, picturewise:

Image

I'm certain it doesn't matter which brand of paper. Somewhere around P1000 is the important bit, which tends to mean wet-and-dry, though if you have some ordinary sandpaper of that grade then it'll be fine. I definitely would use it dry for this: we're just knocking the shine off a bit, not buffing to a mirror finish.

Some people also use OOO grade steel/wire wool for this, but I'd tend to think that a bad idea: those dusty little metal fragments that come off it have an amazing habit of finding their way to the pickup magnets, where they can do real harm. Best avoided.

Up and down, round and round, whatever gets it done for you. The important bit is to just take the gloss off and then stop. You'll hear of people sanding the finish right off necks, but you gotta ask yourself, what is that finish there for in the first place? It's to stop moisture entering and leaving the neck wood too quickly, which can cause warping.

So keep that lacquer, but make it less shiny if that seems nice for your hand. An option.

Cheers - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:24 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am
Posts: 1281
Ceri wrote:
It's to stop moisture entering and leaving the neck wood too quickly, which can cause warping.

So keep that lacquer, but make it less shiny if that seems nice for your hand. An option.

Cheers - C


Oh yeah, thank you C!

Now, I've got to get over my apprehensions of taking it a part again and putting it back together. It did not sound as good as it does now before I disassembled it, took a peek at everything, and reassembled it! What if the vector line for tone is...utterly minute, almost undetectable...will I hit the sweet spot again...


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am
Posts: 4333
Location: Tennessee
You're saying that you took your guitar apart and reassembled it without making any changes...and now it doesn't sound as good????
RCB,I hate to tell you this....but you'll never,ever hit the sweet spot again,the liquidity that you experienced when the smpathetic vibes were happening is lost,in other words....you've De-mojo-'ed your guitar... :shock:
Will the mojo ever return?,I'm sure you will let us know. :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:28 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Rebelsoul wrote:
You're saying that you took your guitar apart and reassembled it without making any changes...and now it doesn't sound as good????
RCB,I hate to tell you this....but you'll never,ever hit the sweet spot again,the liquidity that you experienced when the smpathetic vibes were happening is lost,in other words....you've De-mojo-'ed your guitar... :shock:
Will the mojo ever return?,I'm sure you will let us know. :lol:


I desagree with you about the mojo . Guitar ( and mojo) is only an assembly of some parts wich give a tone. Using the same part with correct assembled and a good set up will sound the same and willhave same mojo.
But my question is about the frets, new frets could some time change the tone ( mojo ? ) and will change the feeling because they are new ( bigger ).I 'm not sayaing the problem is the frets . But I'm sure a proffesional set up will fix everything.

Taking guitar apart will only need a good set up after reassembled it . And maybe if neck apart without slacking truss rod could upbow the neck curve.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:33 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am
Posts: 1281
Rebelsoul wrote:
You're saying that you took your guitar apart and reassembled it without making any changes...and now it doesn't sound as good????

No. That's not what I said. What I said is; "It [somebody's Squier guitar that I am fiddling with] did not sound as good as it does now before I disassembled it, took a peek at everything, and reassembled it!"

In other words, it sounds way better after I took it apart and put it back together.

I should have counted screw turns and such to duplicate the reassemble sequence as close as possible. I guess I can do that on the 2nd disassembly and see what flies when I reassemble it. The guitar is useless as it sits with the glossy finish cuz it's so slippery when wet, sticky when cold!

Thank you for your reply, however!

Ceri, is there any issues with doing the sanding while the neck is attached (I'll tape off the body and parts surrounding the neck)?

Also, since the guitar will then become completely customized with the exception of the frets and body paint (it's getting new tuners, the nut was already replaced, fully upgraded electronics), I'm ah gonna sand off the logo and such on the front of the headstock and rename it and put a cool something on it. Is the same sandpaper used for that job too??? Or, is there another procedure for sanding off the decal and then smoothing out the finish to match the fretboard area???

stratele52, thank you for your reply and info about up-bow and frets. I've got a few repair books here and they don't recommend or consider it necessary to loosen the truss rod when taking the neck off for brief periods of time if you want to keep the same relief, hoping it don't shift.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:23 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
RCB-CA-USA wrote:


stratele52, thank you for your reply and info about up-bow and frets. I've got a few repair books here and they don't recommend or consider it necessary to loosen the truss rod when taking the neck off for brief periods of time if you want to keep the same relief, hoping it don't shift.



Those book are very usefull, I'have most of them but sorry the are incomplete. If you remove neck for "long" period the truss rod without strings pull will change neck curve. You must check and readjust truss rod after reassembled guitar . It is a must . And this neck adjustment could take many days due to dessambled.
Yes, it is a must.

That what I write since the beginning of your post ; your guitar nead a PROFFESSIONAL set up


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:24 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
RCB-CA-USA wrote:
Rebelsoul wrote:
You're saying that you took your guitar apart and reassembled it without making any changes...and now it doesn't sound as good????

No. That's not what I said. What I said is; "It [somebody's Squier guitar that I am fiddling with] did not sound as good as it does now before I disassembled it, took a peek at everything, and reassembled it!"

In other words, it sounds way better after I took it apart and put it back together.



So you "put " some mojo on. Congrat.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:22 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am
Posts: 1281
stratele52 wrote:
Those book are very usefull, I'have most of them but sorry the are incomplete.

Yes, I quickly discovered that the books were all incomplete in one way or another, but collectively, most the information can be found. Adding in help from forums like this, all information can be gotten!

If you remove neck for "long" period the truss rod without strings pull will change neck curve. You must check and readjust truss rod after reassembled guitar . It is a must . And this neck adjustment could take many days due to dessambled.
Yes, it is a must.

I've had necks off of guitars for months, and I have left guitars unstrung for months with the necks attached with zero issues, no setups necessary in some cases, minute adjustments, sure! I was curious to see if statements such as this are true. To my experience, this is not true. However, to get necks straight that were strung and setup improperly and left sitting for a while, I've been able to train a neck by over-adjusting or under-adjusting neck bow with the strings on and leaving the strings taught or loose till the neck bends ever so much in the direction it needs to go!

A good way to start checking out what's going on with a neck is to put the feeler gauge under over the 8th fret with a capo on the first fret, holding the E strings where the body connects to the guitar (standard practices), and if the feeler gauge does not meet approximately the same but slightly more resistance on the 7th and 9th frets versus sliding through on the 8th fret, hearing the violin effect on the 8th fret, there's an issue and the neck needs to be trained in either direction, some necks yielding bad bow, too much in one direction or another, and can't be retrained unless through pressure treatments,or however it's done these days.

No magic, pure logic!


...So you "put " some mojo on. Congrat.

Hah, no. I just reassembled the guitar properly and turned the screws and truss rod just right and made a good string selection -- got it setup correctly and the thing just lit up. mojo is there if it's there. Sometimes mojo is hiding behind a clump of particles in the wrong spot, an improperly angled neck, over or under tightening screws, string gauge, string type, various combos of action adjustment from the springs or bridge to the tuners. Yah gotta find out the mind of the manufacturer team, some like it on the high side, some like it low.

Thank you for your replies!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:49 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:11 am
Posts: 34
Location: CT
I've found that deep holes in the trem block (where the ball end of the string sits) tend to contribute to a slinkier feel as opposed to a block with shallow holes....


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:39 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am
Posts: 4333
Location: Tennessee
stratele52 wrote:
Rebelsoul wrote:
You're saying that you took your guitar apart and reassembled it without making any changes...and now it doesn't sound as good????
RCB,I hate to tell you this....but you'll never,ever hit the sweet spot again,the liquidity that you experienced when the smpathetic vibes were happening is lost,in other words....you've De-mojo-'ed your guitar... :shock:
Will the mojo ever return?,I'm sure you will let us know. :lol:


I desagree with you about the mojo . Guitar ( and mojo) is only an assembly of some parts wich give a tone. Using the same part with correct assembled and a good set up will sound the same and willhave same mojo.
But my question is about the frets, new frets could some time change the tone ( mojo ? ) and will change the feeling because they are new ( bigger ).I 'm not sayaing the problem is the frets . But I'm sure a proffesional set up will fix everything.

Taking guitar apart will only need a good set up after reassembled it . And maybe if neck apart without slacking truss rod could upbow the neck curve.

I was really just kidding RCB and having some fun....I guess it wasn't very obvious,that I wasn't serious. :mrgreen:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:14 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am
Posts: 1281
Rebelsoul wrote:
I was really just kidding RCB and having some fun....I guess it wasn't very obvious,that I wasn't serious. :mrgreen:


That's not much of an apology!

...when you make that sort of comment on a thread like this where people are trying to get and give help and then take that same comment over to another thread where humanity is being discussed and others are trying to impugn my integrity to destroy a well proven message due to their ignorance and, or conditioning, nobody I know would take it as a joke, nor would they take it lightly!

Regardless, I forgive you!

Now, bow down before me and beg for my forgiveness!

As penance, you must pull a fact from Jack's book that you agree with and post it up on the other thread -- along with your apology!

Here's a a link to the book:

http://www.esotericonline.net/forum/top ... eror-wears

Make it a good one!

8)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:22 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Rebelsoul wrote:

I was really just kidding RCB and having some fun....I guess it wasn't very obvious,that I wasn't serious. :mrgreen:


OH I understand now !! You know I'm french speaking and joke are not esy to translante AND understand


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:32 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am
Posts: 4333
Location: Tennessee
Hey RCB,lighten up!.....you take yourself way too seriously.
:roll:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:33 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am
Posts: 4333
Location: Tennessee
stratele52 wrote:
Rebelsoul wrote:

I was really just kidding RCB and having some fun....I guess it wasn't very obvious,that I wasn't serious. :mrgreen:


OH I understand now !! You know I'm french speaking and joke are not esy to translante AND understand

You're cool stratele52....no problem. :D


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: