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Post subject: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:06 pm
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I have a 72 strat with a maple neck. I find the touch very stiff; it always has been difficult doing solo's (streching strings) on this guitar. I had it refretted thinking that one reason was that the frets were quite low. It improved the situation somewhat but its still difficult. I am realizing this in comparison to another guitar I acquired a few years back, a custom shop '64 relic tele with a rosewood neck. I use the same extra-light (0.10) strings on both guitars. The tele has a 9.5" radius, the strat I am not sure but might be 7.25".

I am now looking at getting a custom shop strat. The question is what do I need to look for to ensure I get a touch which will be easy to play solo's on (that will be more buttery than stiff). Do I need to get 9.5" radius. Is there a difference between maple and rosewood in this respect. Any other factor ?

Is there anything I can do on my 72 strat to get the strings to feel less stiff orther than going to super light (0.09) strings?


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:17 pm
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All my guitars I have are setup with Ernie Ball super Slinky 9-42 I cant play anything heavier and the rest is setup


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:14 am
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goodinbed wrote:
All my guitars I have are setup with Ernie Ball super Slinky 9-42 I cant play anything heavier and the rest is setup


And if 9-42's don't help, try 8's -- Billy Gibbons style!


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:22 am
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All my Strat ( I have 3 ) and Tele ( I have 2 ) have 0.010 and no problem with bending, 7,25 an 9.5 neck radius. IMO it is easier for me with 9.5 radius.

Neck is not a rocket science, find a good luthier and explain your problem. He could answer to your question and you will know why you find this neck very stiff.
After that you will know exactly what to do.


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:31 am
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what finsih is on the problem guitars neck ? is it glossy or satin ?


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:22 am
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Dan72 wrote:
I have a 72 strat with a maple neck. I find the touch very stiff; it always has been difficult doing solo's (streching strings) on this guitar.

Is there anything I can do on my 72 strat to get the strings to feel less stiff orther than going to super light (0.09) strings?

Hi Dan: I strongly suspect this is an issue to do with action (height of the strings above the frets) and string gauge. You describe 0.10s as "extra light" and 0.9s as "super light". That probably tells us most of what we need to know about this situation.

Fender sell most of their Strats with 0.9 thou' sets on them, a few with 0.10s. That's because those are what the overwhelming majority of players prefer with a 25.5" scale length. If you are using heavier strings then that is why you are finding fretting and string bending hard going. Simple as that.

If you change to lighter strings that is going to also affect a whole lot of things about how the guitar plays, such as intonation, relief and action. Therefore, you will most definitely need to have the guitar set up to accommodate the new string gauge. If at the same time you ask for a low-ish action then that will help with playing comfort too.

Fingerboard radius is significant to some people, but it isn't really to do with this particular issue. Though if you are contemplating buying an expensive Custom Shop guitar I'd strongly recommend you visit a guitar shop and play Strats with different fingerboard radiuses (radii, if you prefer) just to discover how you feel about that factor. Shame to order a guitar and get that bit of it wrong.

Any decent guitar shop will be happy to help you with all of this.

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:54 am
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Sounds like a neck relief/action/setup problem to me as well. I wouldn't necessarily jump to a lighter gauge yet. I'd try taking it to a really good tech and telling him how you want it to play. Bring in a guitar that plays well for comparison. The frets may need to be leveled in order to get the action right once the relief has been adjusted. The micro-tilt may need an adjustment to change the neck angle so you can lower the bridge saddles and have a shallower break angle; that may help with the tension. Either way, it sounds like a cool old guitar; it'll be worth it IMO to spend the time/money to have a pro get it playing the way you want it.

As far as fingerboard radii go, you may be happier with something like a 9.5" or flatter, like 12". A flatter radius may help with bends for you, but I have two Strats with 7.25" fingerboards and vintage frets, and they both play effortlessly. It's just a matter of getting all the setup components working in harmony.


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:59 am
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+1 on both of the above!

Additionally: I experienced a DRASTIC difference not in string gauges but in string manufacturers on different guitars.
To be honest: I never found out why!!

Fact is, and that's a plain subjective impression:

Some strings just feel much stiffer on a Fender than they did on an Ibanez for example.

I have come to use 009 gauge Elixir Nano Web strings on my Strats, they feel very comfortable to me! Alternative: Fender Stainless Steel bullets (higher tension, all new setup!!) or Earny Ball Slinky.

Anyhow..... I bought a used Strat a while ago. It played like butter and sounded wonderfully brilliant. It had new strings on: my gauge but not my brand of strings.

The strings corroded quickly and I exchanged them with my always used Elixir strings. All of a sudden the guitar sounded less sparkly (normal with Elixir, but not THAT much less!!!) and felt much stiffer than before when playing bending notes!! :shock:

I got used to it.

All I wanna say is: if reducing the gauge doesn't fix the problem, you might wanna change the brand of strings. It does not only affect the sound but also the stiffness feel!

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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:34 pm
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Smokin' Frets wrote:
..All I wanna say is: if reducing the gauge doesn't fix the problem, you might wanna change the brand of strings. It does not only affect the sound but also the stiffness feel!


My guitar playing buddy swears by NuTone strings. He believes them to be the slickest strings he's ever used. Only ever seen them on the internet.

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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:08 pm
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Hi guys, thanks for your ideas. Here is a bit more info in relation to the comments.
1. If I shift to super light (0.09) I am sure the problem will be solved, I played on that many years back, but at some point I shifted because I believe the tone is better with heavier strings, perhaps I can try the .09 again and see if I get as good a sound.
2. When I had the guitar refretted, I believe it was ajusted at that time. In fact I remember noticing that the saddles were much higher, and I thought at the time he messed up the truss rod and ended up raising the saddles. The strings are quite low now. But I know that before it was as hard bending the strings. Some of the posts alluded to adjusting the relief, but this is kinda telling me that it might not change much.
3. The finish on the maple is glossy, it has always been like that, and that, coupled to the 7.25" radius may in fact be part of the problem because your fingers end up slipping a bit when you try to bend the string, its more difficult to catch it. So my question is whether rosewood is easier in general (my other guitars are rosewood and all seem easier). Can any of you guys confirm this ?
4. I like the suggestion to visit a shop which sells custom shop guitars to try them out. I will do that even though the last one I bought on the internet turned out quite good in all respects.
5. I am a bit hesitant to take my guitar in to a tech to have it looked at with the micro-tilt and everything. I know the 3 bolt neck is quite finnicky and I don't want to wind up with problems that I have heard about for this guitar (some going as far as drilling 4 holes for the neck !!). However, perhaps adjusting the micro-tilt as suggested would allow me to lower the saddles a bit.
6. In terms of radius, I do have a guitar with 12" radius and I find it a bit flat, so I would definitely go with 9.5" between the three options (unless I find a 7.25" radius guitar that I find easy to play).
7. I like the suggestions for different brands of strings also, I might try that. Presently I have fender bullets, but recenly new fender strings have always been somewhat corroded from day 1. I have used Elixir in the past, and I settled on D'Addario mostly. I do prefer nickel plated steel for my strat though, finding that it is the string with the most twang, thus suitable for a strat in my opinion. Perhaps I should try NuTone as suggested.

Thanks for all of your inputs guys !


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:33 pm
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A lot of the Strat players go for the 70 style strats (Blackmore, Malmsteen at the top of my head) that alone tell me the 7.25 rad. neck is just fine for solos.....I would take it to a tech and have a good set up....bet it takes care of your troubles......as far as lighter gage strings.....if you go to 8s you have a whole new ball park to learn (thats all I have ever used since the mid-late 70s) alot of people that play on my guitars hate them.....just the slightest movement makes it go out of tune.....but I love them :)

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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:19 pm
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Smokin' Frets wrote:
+1 on both of the above!

Additionally: I experienced a DRASTIC difference not in string gauges but in string manufacturers on different guitars.
To be honest: I never found out why!!



+1 again.
SITs are very stiff but last forever,
Ernie Balls are OK
Those cryogenic what-nots ... blue somethings were so stiff, they were off my guitar in 15 minutes!
I now use Super Bullets.


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:18 am
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Dan72 wrote:
3. The finish on the maple is glossy, it has always been like that, and that, coupled to the 7.25" radius may in fact be part of the problem because your fingers end up slipping a bit when you try to bend the string, its more difficult to catch it. So my question is whether rosewood is easier in general (my other guitars are rosewood and all seem easier). Can any of you guys confirm this ?

I have the same issue with high gloss maple necks and high gloss maple necks with rosewood fingerboards. Once I start sweating, I slide all over the place and it takes quite an effort to be accurate, which adversely effects the whole process of playing. When it's cold, gloss gets a little sticky too. When the temperature and humidity are perfect, gloss is fine. It's a great lesson in control but that's it for my body chemistry under adverse conditions.

So, I use only satin maple necks and satin or low gloss maple w/ rosewood fingerboards!

I've got a super duper Squier specimen here that's got a high gloss neck. I like the guitar but wouldn't be able to use it in all temps unless the neck is refinished with satin. I know your dilemma!


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:12 am
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Dan72 ,

Reading your last answer , may 2.

I'm sure you must see a good luthier which can EASELY fix all of your problem.
I don't no what kind of guy you se for your fret replacement but it is not a competent luthier.

Don't waiste your time and money and you will enjoy your guitar if you see a competent luthier.
Micro tilt , sadlles, neck curve , action .....all of these wich seem a mystery for you are easy fix.

A new guitar is not an answer.


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Post subject: Re: How to get BUTTERY versus STIFF string action/feel
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:59 am
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Dan72 wrote:
2. When I had the guitar refretted, I believe it was ajusted at that time...

Hi Dan: I mentioned re-setting up the guitar because if you change the string gauge again you will also need to have the set up redone, since everything about it will be thrown out by the different tension and intonation of different sized strings. Not a big deal, but it does have to be done.


Dan72 wrote:
Some of the posts alluded to adjusting the relief, but this is kinda telling me that it might not change much.

As far as your particular issue goes relief is likely the smallest part of it. But it is something that needs to be checked when you change string gauge and redo the set up again.


Dan72 wrote:
The finish on the maple is glossy... So my question is whether rosewood is easier in general

I've a feeling when Moochy asked whether the finish was gloss or satin he was thinking about the back of the neck rather than the fingerboard. Significant in that some people find gloss can have a "stickiness" that slows down hand movement and hampers their playing. If so, it is easily addressed by rubbing it down very gently with P1000 or P1500 wet-and-dry paper, just enough to take the shine off. (Don't sand right through the finish.)


Dan72 wrote:
I am a bit hesitant to take my guitar in to a tech to have it looked at with the micro-tilt and everything.

Quite right. With friendly respect to other comments on this thread, you would only ever touch the microtilt if your saddles are already as low as they will go but the strings are still too high above the frets (too much action). Then, and only then, there is a possible reason to adjust the microtilt.

From what you say, this is not your problem. So leave that thing well alone.


Dan72 wrote:
Thanks for all of your inputs guys !

Welcome! :D

This issue is easily fixable. A friendly chat with a competent tech will solve any set up issues you may have, once you've thought about your string gauge, and perhaps brand. (Mind you, competent is sometimes the tricky bit when it comes to finding techs...)

Good luck - C

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