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Post subject: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:23 am
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Received shipment last week (ordered through Guitar Center), went through all of the intial setup procedures: intonation is good, height and action good, two point floating bridge all set, strings thoroughly stretched (I am experienced working with strats, I'm not a luthier, but I know my way around the guitar). Everything sounds good, pick ups are great, beautiful guitar, .....but, the reason I stepped up to this from my last few foreign made strats is because I want to be able to use the tremolo and not worry about it going out of tune. My new American Deluxe Strat doesn't hold tune after tremolo use, period, especially the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd strings (E, B, and G respectively). In fact, my other squire strats hold tune a little better because I have them optimized and adjusted perfectly, I just can't do major, heavy "whammy" use with them or they do go out of tune, so I just do light tremolo work.

After reading online reviews on Guitarcenter.com, and being a Fender Strat lover, I decided to spend extra money and go with USA made strat. All the reviews for American Deluxe Stratocaster people raving about heavy tremolo use and never going out of tune because of the locking tuners and the two point floating tremolo . . . so I made the leap and got me one last week. As I said it's all setup, strings stretched, plays nicely, but tremolo problems seem to have no remedy. I even observed luther youtube videos on setting up the American Deluxe Strat for tremolo use to make sure I wasn't missing anything,as well as follow other advice like using graphite on the nut, saddles, and trees . . . nothing works! Very disappointed. I'm still within my 30 days since purchase, I think I'm going to take it back to guitar center and try out something with a locking nut.


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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:15 pm
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Welcome.

We can certainly feel for your disappointment with such a fine guitar but the long and the short of it is, in spite of its many improvements over the years (and hype thereof), NO vigorously used, non-locking tremolo is going to stay in tune.

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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:18 pm
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Two things:
1. I would not expect a new American Strat to stay in tune with whammy use, or even one step string bending.
2. It's easily corrected.

MOST of the problem is at the nut. Still, it's not a bad idea to make sure there is no rubbing of the tremolo springs on the body. I have found all the hype about how to position the trem springs to be nothing but hype.

Bottom line: The strings MUST be able to glide unimpeded through the nut slots when you use the whammy or bend with your fingers. It the strings move a 1/16th of an inch when you whammy down, and ALMOST but NOT QUITE return to the exact spot you started, you're flat. Getting that last 10% of return is the trick.

I would first take all the strings off and check how they move through the nut slots. Hold a string tightly between two hands, put it in the appropriate slot, apply some down pressure, and slide the string back and forth in the slot, a couple three inches each way. There should be no binding...smooth smooth smooth. If it binds, don't expect lube to solve it. The bottom, and maybe even the sides of the slot need to be smoothed. 400 to 600 grit will do the job. I only own a .10 fret file, but it lets me make sure the first slot is done right (if there was binding), and then for the rest, I can wrap a little 400 grit around the file to address the other slots. That is, assuming that the other slots are at least in the ballpark.

Once you're certain there's no binding, then put the strings on, but before you bring them to pitch, slip each string out of its slot and fill the slot with vaseline petroleum jelly ...I use a toothpick. And put a tiny dab under the string trees. Heck, I even put a dab where the bridge contacts the post, and on the ends of the trem springs. Put the strings in the slots, bring it up to pitch and wipe the excess off the nut.

Sure, you can use graphite if you want, or some stuff from the guitar store, but I've found nothing that works better than vaseline. If you were to look at one of my slots under magnification, it would look like a heavy steel cable PACKED in grease. That's what you want.
Now, as you work the trem (before you start picking/strumming) there should be no pinging noises coming from the strings, or creaking noises coming from the springs. The system should be pretty much SILENT. Any noise is a sign of binding somewhere in the system.

That'll do it. I've done this on several trem guitars with the same results. My current Strat stays in tune for many songs, and comes back to tune after aggressive whammy use. Stays in tune as well as a non trem guitar (assuming the non trem guitar has been properly tweaked).

I had a problem with a new Strat...G string bound in the nut. I took it back to the shop in Lansing...nationally known shop with a large repair staff. The tech made two half-%$^ attempts at fixing it, and told me nothing more could be done. I finally decided to buy a file and fix it myself as described above. I looked at the store's website and discovered that the tech used to be HEAD OF THE SETUP DEPARTMENT AT FENDER.
I can't tell you the moral of this story, other than expecting any guitar to be properly set up from the factory is not realistic. Oughta be maybe, but it's not.

more opinion: nut material isn't a big part of the staying in tune equation either. I've gotten identical results with bone, Corian, and whatever the standard Fender nut material is.


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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:47 pm
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Thanks guys, I'll try these suggestions.

RW


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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:19 pm
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I am a bit confused. I have a 2011 Am Dlx HSS. With the roller nut and staggered tuners the tuning is incredibly stable even 1/2 tone bending with the whammy bar. I do keep everything very clean and lubed. I am using Ernie Ball Slinky 10s

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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:22 pm
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I was under the impression that [b]all[b] strat style non-locking tremelos would never stay perfectly in tune would vigorous(or even gentle)use. My Hwy One doesn't stay in tune at all, so I decked the bridge and took off the tremelo arm completely and never thought about it again. That is until I got my American Deluxe strat. When I first got it, the b, g, and little e strings were binding in the nut a little The guitar came with 9's on it and I guess the nut is optimized for that gauge of strings. So, after I filed out the nut slots a tiny little bit, I have absolutely no problem with tuning issues whilst using the trem. I couldn't believe it myself at first. I even showed off to a few of my guitarist buddies how well this trem stays in tune.
Bottom line: it will stay in tune if everything is right.
I'd say it's the nut, just like mine was. Just like siamese said

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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:30 pm
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Because it is a roller nut or to be precise the strings are set in ball bearings thus friction is at a minimum.
This would be a possible solution to the OP's dilemna but i would say that strats were never designed for the Van Halen Steve Vai Wammy bar overuse..
There are certain compromises with the Fender systems, personally I detest locking nuts and tail pieces simply because when you break a string which eventually happens, there is no 2 second string change, it's always a mechanics process with Hex keys and various small screws which sometimes drop and cannot be found for quite some time...
Another reason is a locking nut requires either drilling or inserting screws at one of the most tensioned and weak point of a guitar.
Tone is another issue but since most whammy users are heavily distorted that is not a concern.

OP you will have to make a choice as to using a Fender or going to a model which is more in line with your style of playing like a Jackson which is owned by Fender....
Yes a Fender will stay in tune but it depends on what sound effects you are searching for and as to how far you are pushing a limited set of the bridge's mechanical travel.

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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:44 pm
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Another thing to do is to pull the springs out of the trem, and exercise them 50 -60 times. Not that I use a whammy, but springs can be weird. At my job I have tested springs in the past and they seem to have a memory of their own until they are fully stretched/relaxed several times. And when you add the opposing force of the strings pulling on them...

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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:06 pm
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The HSS versions of the new American Deluxe come with the ball-bearing nut. The SSS version, like mine, come with a synthetic bone nut. This trem will stay in tune if set up properly, I promise. Mine works great, and while I admit I never dive bomb it, I frequently use it for mild vibrato.

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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:10 pm
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Its the nut. The plain steel strings have more surface area to bind. If the nut is too tight they will bind even with lubrication.
I never have problems, but I use it for vibrato, and not dive bombing.


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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:25 pm
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I have a 2011 American Deluxe and I had SERIOUS buyer's remorse because of tuning issues. They're now 100% cured. I played a gig last night and did not have to retune more than twice, and that's better than my Les Paul or my Taylor solid body.

Here's what I did:

1. SuperVee BladeRunner vibrato system. It replaces the factory vibrato but requires no alterations.

2. Bone nut. Carved by a local luthier/repair shop. I use .11s and the factory Fender nut had slots that were too tight.

3. Disregard the string tree. Run the E and B string over the top of the string tree and just wind them down the post so there is some downward force, but not as much as the string tree causes.

4. When you're out of tune, before you go tweaking tuners in frustration, give the vibrato bar a good dive bomb (preferably between songs with the volume down) and let the strings snap back into place. This often helps A LOT.


That's it ... stays in tune great now.


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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:19 pm
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Fender will certainly listen to and bring back the locking bridge option on the Deluxe HSS Strats.

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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:23 am
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eddie_bowers wrote:
Its the nut. The plain steel strings have more surface area to bind. If the nut is too tight they will bind even with lubrication.
I never have problems, but I use it for vibrato, and not dive bombing.


Not only the nut but also the string trees on the headstock. It amazes me that Fender provide an LSR roller nut and no string trees on the US Deluxe HSS Strat but not on the SSS version, what gives????

I've got a 2005 Jeff Beck Strat with the LSR roller nut and there are no string trees on the headstock. This guitar will pretty much take any trem abuse and always remain in tune. I think the LSR roller nut is one of the most important developments Fender has made to it's trem equipped Guitars but it installs it as standard on so few models. I don't know if it's an aesthetics thing.

There are videos online to show how to install an LSR roller nut. I'm not sure if you will have to change your tuners for ones with staggered height so you can remove the string trees or not.

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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:03 am
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For vibrato the 2 point tremolo is great. For dive-bombing...not so great. I still prefer the stability of a double-locking tremolo for extreme pulls and dives.

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Post subject: Re: Disappointed in new American Deluxe Stratocaster
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:59 am
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rkreisher wrote:
For vibrato the 2 point tremolo is great. For dive-bombing...not so great. I still prefer the stability of a double-locking tremolo for extreme pulls and dives.


The Deluxe locking tremolo (aka Fender Floyd Rose and Mini-Floyd) gives you the advantages of a locking tremolo without altering the look of your Strat. It's essentially a 2-point point trem with locking bridge saddles. Fender discontinued this product in 2007 (though I saw the bridge assembly listed in the products page until recently).

If you want a 2-point tremolo having the benefits of a locking bridge, then the Mini-Floyd is for you.


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