Right on! I bet you never lost a day of sleep because you have a four piece, either! It is an electric guitar not a Stradivarius.

Hi Jay: a thought provoking post. I wouldn't challenge any of it, though I strongly doubt anyone could really identify by ear a difference between bodies with one, two or three pieces in their construction in a genuinely well conducted scientific test. We were briefly discussing the problems with conducting such tests on another thread recently: I have never heard of an even vaguely scientifically credible test being conducted on this subject - which of course leaves the whole thing charmingly wide open to conjecture and people's unverifiable claims about the sensitivity of their own ears.

Which is half the point of guitar forums, it seems...

Also. As someone who has become increasingly interested in the properties of various glues in instrument construction I'd be fascinated to hear the views of the tonewood theorists on the effect of using hide glue or aliphatic in body joints. I wonder what difference they feel those highly differentiated adhesives should make?



It doesn't contradict what Mike Eldred says to point out again that "tonewood" type reasons were specifically not why Leo Fender used alder, ash and maple in his guitars. The tonewood justifications came along a fair while later, and according to Trev Wilkinson (who worked side by side with Leo for several years) amused him greatly. Doesn't mean they're right or wrong, but it does mean those ideas are entirely post hoc as far as the design intentions of the instruments are concerned.



This may be the most crucial point on the thread.

Cheers - C

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To be sure, Sir Ceri, Im equally unaware of any well conducted scientific tests to determine if anyone could every hear the difference between 1, 2, 3 and more piece bodies. Moreover, Im also equally unaware of any data around the impact of various glues, etc. These studies followed scientific methods, but were not designed to show how well people can hear these differences. To Eldreds comments, I'd add that he described the tonal impact of all elements of guitars as "all chicken soup", with each ingredient impacting the flavor more or less.

On a tangent, it would be very interesting to conduct a two pronged test.

First, find if various laboratory equipment could detect any difference in wave patterns of sounds produced by two different bodies. Of course, the only variable in the entire signal chain could be the bodies of two or multiple guitars, say a multi-piece basswood plastic cased body compared to a single piece white ash body in a grain revealing finish. If no change in wave patterns emerges, call it a day, test over, as clearly there is no tonal impact. However....

Second, "IF" different wave sets are present, then record them precisely for comparative playback for a statistically significant number (33) of individuals to judge (A) whether they CAN hear a difference and (B) what those differences are, and (C) to guestimate which body represents each tone.

And I must say, Ceri, that its wonderful of you to volunteer!!!

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BigJay's Custom '69 Kickassocaster
'90 Les Paul Standard "Vintage"
'00 MIJ '62 Tele RI
'76 Fender BandMaster Reverb
'71 Acoustic Control 2x12 w/Celestion V30s
'71 Martin D18
Mesa Mark IV
'65 Deluxe Reverb RI

Jay, I think it would be genuinely interesting as well as fun to construct a truly scientifically credible experiment into this. Once one had done so the same methodology could be used to test some other things too: fingerboard material, finish type, frets, and so on.

I think you've made a good start. If I may make some suggestions: I think just one variable at a time must be tested, so the bodies need to have the same finishes, and the self-same necks and hardware need to be used each time, being swapped out between samples. A torque wrench can be used to make sure the neck bolts are tightened the same each time - and so forth.

And we need to test multiple bodies of each sort, to make the experiment stastically significant: no good comparing just one one-piece body with one two-piece body. We have to repeat it umpteen times to show that the results are consistent. I'd also suggest that A), B) and C) in your post need to be separate experiments, to keep the analysis clear.

And an interesting little problem: if it is recorded samples that are to be compared then we need some sort of method or apparatus for producing identical plucks or strums on the strings time and again. Can't have the data soiled by inconsistencies of volume and attack.

And then all the other paraphernalia of a genuine double-blind test: independent experimenters, endless repetition, proper record keeping, peer review, yadda yadda. You know the drill.

Then we'd get some results that might be worth someone's time of day.

Cheers - C

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I tried to imply the consistency of parts in my description. Yes, of course. The only variable can be the body. Necks, pups, circuitry, bridges, et al, must be transferred to the next body. Moreover, the lab environment must also be consistent, with to alteration to amp settings, guitar knob settings, etc.

Regarding what bodies to test, I tried to save a little time and potential inconvenience, by suggesting two very different bodies for the initial binary test...."yes theres a difference" or "no there is not". If a plasticoated multi-piece basswood body sounds the same as a single piece ash burst body, we needn't try something more similar to either end of the body spectrum....

Now...let me know when you've set up the lab....

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BigJay's Custom '69 Kickassocaster
'90 Les Paul Standard "Vintage"
'00 MIJ '62 Tele RI
'76 Fender BandMaster Reverb
'71 Acoustic Control 2x12 w/Celestion V30s
'71 Martin D18
Mesa Mark IV
'65 Deluxe Reverb RI

No matter how scientific you want to get, of you bought a Custom Shop Strat for $3500, you will "hear" a difference no matter what scientific proof you can prove to be otherwise! LOL! So odd because i have owned a lot of guitars and still have quite a number. Some play and sound better than others. No rhyme or reason—as they all vary in some way from each other. Some are simply duds....

I will play a MIJ JD Tele made of Basswood (3 pieces at that) and think, Man, this light weight wood really resonates and the guitar sustains incredible! Then some time later I will be playing one of my heavy solid Ash Strats and think to myself, Man, this heavy weight wood really resonates and the guitar sustains incredible! oops, wait. Didn't I just think that about the Tele? Ummmm... Light weight? heavy weight? Maple Neck? Rosewood neck? Ummmm...... Some guitars just have that magic feel and presences. Sometimes it is just my feelings and where my head is at the time. So I sit back nd watch and listen to all the tone wood discussions and just wonder.

Now when it comes to my acoustics, I can tell a difference. My solid Mahogany Martin sounds richer than my one with the Cedar top, which is brighter. Slap a electromagnetic pickup on a hunk of wood with steel strings....ummm I don't know.

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Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com

This sounds like a job the.. Mythbusters..could handle.

Yeah I could see them dispelling the myths.

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DONE! i just wrote a detailed email to Mythbusters and told them to do a TV program on it. think about it:

As you know, Rock and Roll and the invention of the electric guitar has created a billion-dollar business, along with an assortment of various makes and models of electric guitars. People, such as myself, are involved with making custom built guitars. Guitars….ah yes, the electric guitar. There is an amazing fascination about them—their looks, sounds and their artists.

BUT, if you read sales brochures, websites, visit music stores, or jump on a guitar forum (of which there are many), there is one unanswered question, one that has never been proven in a laboratory — Does the various wood used in an electric guitar cause the guitar, when played as an electric, SOUND DIFFERENT? Like a solid body Ash Strat brighter sounding that one made from Alder? Does a mahogany Les Paul sound different than one made from solid Maple?

Does wood density or type of wood really affect the sound of something amplified by electromagnetic pickups with steel strings? This debate/discussion is huge with guitar owners as well as with the manufactures. BUT this urban legend never really been tested in a laboratory. And what an interesting show you would have….

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Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com

As I quoted Eldred earlier, "its chicken soup". Your tele might have a 3 piece basswood body, but thats not the entire recipe. It might have other attributes that create that resonance and sustain you hear. Maybe the bridge, resting on the body? Maybe the saddles or the tuners or the different truss system? Its hard to know. I've always dreamed of assembling a telecaster. I'd start with a very dense body, single piece ash or even maple, if its available. The neck would be quarter-sawn maple....ridged. Then I'd put some warm pickups on it and vintage hardware. Who knows? It might sound like a POS chinese knockoff, or maybe a Fender Custom Shop.

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BigJay's Custom '69 Kickassocaster
'90 Les Paul Standard "Vintage"
'00 MIJ '62 Tele RI
'76 Fender BandMaster Reverb
'71 Acoustic Control 2x12 w/Celestion V30s
'71 Martin D18
Mesa Mark IV
'65 Deluxe Reverb RI

I think how much chicken soup the player has digested plays a significantly greater part in the guitars sound than does dead wood.
I don't believe what heads of marketing tell me. In fact when I see the title it makes me question every statement.

I doubt you could make anything sound bad Jay, from what I've heard. You really ought be promoting that sonic bliss with more vigor.

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