Your insults don't impress me, your law experience doesn't impress me, and if you were in the military then that doesn't impress me either. 1* troll.

Your profligate ignorance of the law as it applies to this thread's topic *impresses* me but I'm certain you have a long-and-profitable career ahead of you in the food-service industry.

Have a nice......whatever, pal.



Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

I would point out, that a parts-caster is different than a "fake". IMO, the word fake implies that it was purposefully meant to be misleading as to what the guitar actually is supposed to be.

What reason could one have for putting a Fender decal on a non-Fender guitar, besides deception? Doesn't matter if the owner is only fooling themselves, it is still deceitful. And the unsuspecting could easily be fooled.

I have no problem with parts-casters, and a person can certainly do as they wish with their guitars. I believe Retroverbial that it is not a crime to fake a Strat as long as you don't sell it as such, but clearly the intention is to deceive, and that's just not cool at all. I believe that eBay, for one, does not allow fakes to be sold even if they are identified as such by the seller.

Any doubt about why fakes are generally made, check this thread:
http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68718

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

This whole issue is identical the the argument about muscle car clones in the antique auto business. It is possible with commercially available and licensed parts to build an exact duplicate of a Chevy Camaro Z-28, Pontiac GTO, Mustang Boss, and many other famous muscle cars from the 60s and early 70s. They have appeared in national magazines and won awards. Some of the builders/owners are upfront about it and keep the stock VIN tag to show what the car really is. Others are not and there is an entire market dedicated to making fake VIN tags for any vehicle you like. They often use numbers off of vehicles that have been destroyed or sold overseas making the original number dificult to trace.

Even if the original owners are honest, the problem arises after the car has been sold once or twice: Paperwork gets "lost", new paperwork gets created, subsequent owners flat out lie about what the vehicle is, etc. The result is that something that is not what it represents itself to be is sold for much more than it is truly worth. The buyer gets burned, lawsuits get filed, people have been sent to jail. Is it worth it all?

The bottom line is, that gorgeous partscaster that you built that is the guitar of your dreams makes you so proud that you want to give credit to its heritage by putting a Fender/Gibson/Ibanez decal on it. You're an honest person and say that you will never sell it. But stuff happens. You sell the guitar with that logo on it and tell the new owner. Great. Your hands are clean. But the person who bought it and then turns around and resells it may not be as honest.

Like shimmilou, I make the distinction between a partscaster and a fake guitar that someone built and sold specifically with the intention to deceive. Unfortunately, after a while they all begin to look alike.

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Bill

Clearly the distinction has been made between a parts-caster and a fake at this point. I think we are supposed to zero in on the "lets take a squire, sand off the decal and serial and brand it as a MIA Fender!" Cause lets face it, The fakers want to buy a $75 squire off Craigslist and then repost it after its conversion for several hundred more dollars. These fakes and fakers should be flogged with their creations because they really muddy the water in the after market. Don't know if your like me but my local Craigslist has a person who ALWAYS calls out the fakes or overpriced stuff. Where was he when I got engaged to my wife? Anyway.
In MY America what's mine is mine and I can do what I want to or with it. Sadly my America is dying giving way to people who tell you what your allowed to do with your stuff and property. Sorry, didn't mean to get political.
Let's just face it, as long as there is an item with a proven reputation for quality and prestige there will be TONS of fakes!

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TOO MANY GUITARS, TOO LITTLE TIME!

Current Stable:
Fender Stratocaster MIM 07
Squire II Stratocaster MIK 89?
ESP LTD MH-100QM
Jackson KE3 Kelly MIJ

There are famous musicians out there playing guitars with Fender bodies and an after market neck (even with a Fender logo on it).

Thanks for your input.

As I said before, "Do what you will. Just don't rip Fender off by trying to sell it as anything other than a copy."

That's a very good point that no one else has bought up yet.

Thanks for sharing.

The fake Fender decal itself is an illegal TM infringement, unless you purchased it directly from Fender or an authorized dealer.
You have tip toed around doing business with a company that sells illegal products, purchased counterfeit logos, placed them on a non Fender instrument, making that guitar a fake, and illegal to sell as a Fender.
Tell yourself whatever you need to, but its people like you that have destroyed the secondary market for Fender instruments.
Lastly, its disrespectful to come on a forum provided by Fender, and intended for players of Fender guitars to flaunt your counterfeit instruments.

+1

If I liked the way a guitar played and sounded, I'd buy it even if it was not a genuine Fender or if it were a partscaster provided I was being told up front by the seller what it was.

Being a savy shopper when it comes to guitars being sold by anyplace other than the authorized dealers, I would also do my own research before buying by checking serial numbers and comparing parts to the real Fender models. Anything I find on a guitar that makes me question it's authenticity is a bargaining chip to have the price reduced if it was not already disclosed...or depending on what I'm after, a potential deal breaker.

For a partscaster, I would be trying to figure out exactly what the origins of the parts were. If I can't determine the quality if it's components a partscaster is worthless to me, but if it's got quality parts, I would be willing to buy it for the right price.

Where I do have a problem is when someone is trying to pass off something as a STOCK model when it is not or is a complete fake. To a certain extent, the seller may not even be aware himself; but In those cases where things sound too good to be true I have been known to call them out on exactly what they are selling.

A local pawn shop once had a GIBSON Les Paul complete with Gibson logo that they were selling with the claim it was made in KOREA(???) at the Epiphone factory (???) for $600. He claimed it was a "licensed replica". I smelled a rat and told the shop owner that either he got ripped off or he was going to rip off whoever bought that guitar and then contacted Gibson about it and they confirmed my suspicion that the seller was full of $@!&.

I didn't realise there was so much hostility towards home built guitars or is it just the fender logo thing.
As you may know I am building a Stratocaster type guitar but more as a learning experience and to see what can be done. The building is a huge part of the fun, decicding on parts etc. I have done this vicariously through TK by having a master built but it is expensive and he is a busy bloke

I fully get what you mean about Paris putting a Fender logo on a non fender product but do we have to be so hard on him. I don't believe he is trying to fool anyone unlike our eastern comrades. But down the line...

First of all, the logo isn't a real one, didn't get from Fender for a Fender. I could be wrong, but a fake logo not made by Fender, is itself a copyright infringement. I also believe that making copies of paper money is illegal, even if you don't try to pass the fake bills. So, even if not illegal, what's the point if not for deception? Pretty clear that there is no reason whatsoever to fake a guitar, except to deceive.

Note, still a huge difference between putting together a parts guitar vs faking one.

I suppose someone will come up with some goofy reason as to why you would fake a guitar other than to deceive. Maybe the tone that you can only get from a Fender decal?

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Clearly this is an issue that everyone takes to heart. Just wish we could split the thread into Fakes for Profit and Parts caster logos. PartsCasters are so varied and obscure that something simple as an upgrade can turn a guitars pedigree on it's ear. Clearly the collectors want the rare and unique. they don't want a parts caster they want the full pedigree. Players want the feel on one thing and the performance of another. If you must put a Fender logo on your mutt guitar, fine, print off another decal and put it on the back of the head or bottom of the neck saying this is not a genuine fender and list the parts it is made from. YOUR guitar may have more time and effort in it than the actual Fenders coming from the factory. Hell, print up a sticker to put under the pick guard or trem cover. Sign your work of art. My point is, everyone here sees that logo as something different. Some see it as a symbol of quality, others as a simple brand, others as a statis symbol and being one of the club. This whole argument makes me think of the guy that has a corvette Hat, Jacket, and keychain but drives a beat up toyota.
Fakers who are just looking to rip people off should just be shot!

_________________
TOO MANY GUITARS, TOO LITTLE TIME!

Current Stable:
Fender Stratocaster MIM 07
Squire II Stratocaster MIK 89?
ESP LTD MH-100QM
Jackson KE3 Kelly MIJ

That makes sense.

I for one wouldn't want a Fender logo on my home built guitar because it isn't a Fender, plain and simple. If you look at my thread I spent an hour or so making a Bender logo but now I'm told there is a make of guitar called Bender. My latest idea is Mender as in 'mend a guitar'.

I'm aslo planning MAD in Dorset on the back of the headstock. Perhaps a certificate on non-authenticity, hell why not a spec sheet?

All I'm saying is why would Paris put his guitars on here making everyone aware if he was trying to pull a fast one. Just my 5 cents.

Sure there will be a problem later in the World's history when some dude is posting on here asking 'is this fake' - which is what needs to be addressed.