It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:53 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Intonation problems
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:30 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 2
I recently purchased an MIM Strat and have a very annoying problem. Using a tuner, the low E string is tuned right on the money at both open string and 12th fret. Going up chromatically from open initially produces a note that is severely sharp and, as I lightly press at each fret, very gradually returns back to being in tune when I reach the 12 fret. When playing and E chord the string is in tune. When playing an open G chord the low G is extremely sharp and needs to be flattened. This seems to be the only string having this problem. The neck is dead straight. I brought the guitar back to the tech (at a national music chain where I bought the guitar) and he said there is nothing that can be done with it and that it was a common problem with Strats. He took a new American Strat from the display and tuned it and sure enough it did the same thing. Is this something I'm going to have to live with or can someone offer up a fix? Thanx


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Intonation problems
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:10 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14051
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
I have a few Strat and I have no problem with that . First of all I know very well how to set up a guitar and I have a good tuner for that . The Peterson VSII stroboscopic tuner .

All ( most ) other tuner can give you false reading. I used some before buying the Peterson.

Go to see a good and real luthier , he will set up your guitar right because he will have the knowledge. Not like the guy you see.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Intonation problems
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:29 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 43
Yep. I've had that problem on at least two strats. It's not extrememly sharp as you said but enough for me to notice. The best fix I've found is involves settings the octaves as you have, open and 12th, but then check again on the 5th and 17th- adjust if neccesary, and then 7th and 19th etc. Doing so can help you dial it in better and realize that any instrument will have inherent areas where you'll have to compromise. Hope that helps...

_________________
Please visit my youtube channel and check out my music at www.youtube.com/user/markr7922


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Intonation problems
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:53 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:33 am
Posts: 8461
Location: Mars, the angry red planet.
I'm in a minority about this however, I feel that Fender's own specs are what is causing these rather common problems and not just with MIMs either. Across the board, they recommend too much bow in the neck, their bridge saddle height orientation does not faithfully follow the neck's radius and they have the rear of the tremolo sitting up too high. All this causes too much travel between the fretted notes and the open ones, some more than the others, most noticeable on the thicker strings. Hence, intonation and even outright tuning problems will present themselves in certain spots.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

_________________
You dig?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Intonation problems
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:28 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:05 am
Posts: 667
If you are fretting sharp on the first few frets, you either have 1: A nut that is too high, or 2: WAY too much relief in the neck. Although, if relief were the issue, I don't think the 12th fret would sound in tune when you play it. So, that leaves a nut that is not filed deep enough (too high of a nut height). A good shop can fix this easy and cheap :) Or you can, if you have the tools and experience.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Intonation problems
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:34 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:21 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
For sure, when the note goes sharp, especially on low E string, it's usually the nut slot height that needs to be taken down by a professional luthier. But saddle height and neck relief can also influence going out of tune (that is, not intonated) as you run the scales.

The nut slot needs a special file and is filed on a down $@!&# towards the peghead, then evens off on the neck side; it is not filed on the same plane across its base. The down $@!&# allows to the string to travel at the proper angle from the string post to the nut. Nut slot height is also a function of neck radius, fret height, and string guage.

Don't be discouraged. Almost every Strat Cat has experienced this situation. Although this is not an unusual issue with Strats, it can also be found on other guitars. However, it can be corrected and is not something you have to live with.

Also, check your neck relief. To check for a straight neck on the low E string, depress 1st fret with one hand and very top fret with the other. Sight the neck and you now have a straight edge. Any gaps under the frets, ususally around 7, 8 and 9 is the amount of relief in your neck. Adjust the truss rod clockwise to remove the relief.

Fine tune with saddle height until the string starts to buzz on the frets then tweak the low E saddle to remove the buzz.

Strongly suggest to get an pro luthier, especially one experienced with Stratocasters, to look at your instrument and make these adjustments, especially the nut. The rest you can keep an eye on and tweak as necessary. Be careful with tightening the truss rod. The tendency is to force it in a clockwise direction once it starts to tighten up. You can also try to coax the truss rod to stabilize once tightened to yield a straight neck if you carefully bend the neck (hold the guitar body upright between your knees) and apply pressure, carefully and firmly, using both your hands in a backbow direction. This has worked for me before and helps to coax and seat a truss rod, effective especially on guitars, for example, like the 50s Classic where you have a 7.25" neck radius and a very thin neck. On higher end instruments, like an American Standard or Deluxe, I have never had to do this. But on every other Strat I have owned, there is always something to be fine-tuned with the nut, sometimes even replacing it completely.

Fender probably leaves nut height somewhat on the high side so players can adjust it to their style. That is, a nut can always be adjusted/filed down, but it can't be adjusted/filed up.

Also, once you have tuned up with a tuner, rely on your ear to fine tune. Tuning to an open chord is not going to be accurate, because as soon as you change chords, the 3rd will be out, it's the nature of musical intervals. So you need to compensate by checking intonation with 12th fretted notes and harmonics across the fretboard, not just at the 12th fret. And in order to have correct tuning, proper intonation, starting with the high E by the way, is necessary.

Hope this helps.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Intonation problems
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:05 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 159
There are some great technical answers posted but there are a couple of things you have to look at. Depending on which year you have you may have regular frets or the med. jumbo frets. the jumbo frets are supposed to make fretting a note easier for smother playing. the problem is, when you have a Jumbo fret you increase the travel of the string. thus making it sharp when you press to hard to the board. the easy fix. soften your middle finger when you play the G so that you fret the string but dont press it hard. Your string gauge can effect this too. I play with 8's so on my jumbo fret ESP I play a lot softer than on my regular fret Squire II with the same strings. Try using less tension in your hand and see if that doesn't solve the problem.

_________________
TOO MANY GUITARS, TOO LITTLE TIME!

Current Stable:
Fender Stratocaster MIM 07
Squire II Stratocaster MIK 89?
ESP LTD MH-100QM
Jackson KE3 Kelly MIJ


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: