It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:36 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.d.?
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:30 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
I've posted pics of the key features this guitar has. I tried to do some searches but haven't pinpointed an exact model designation. All I know is it was believed to be bought in 1986 and has an E7 serial number - 22 frets - locking nut - Kahler USA bridge (with no model designation on it, what the hell is it?)

Any insight to what it is and maybe a link to a Fender catalog showcasing it would be cool. I like figuring out the history on these oddballs.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:53 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:31 am
Posts: 1398
Location: scotland
hi and here you go , click on the link
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.blackman4/cont.htm
cheers
Alan

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:02 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:45 pm
Posts: 2770
Location: Kansas
I believe those were called the "Conteporary Standard" Strat as they originally came out in say early 1986 or so to provide kind of an updated regular Strat with 3 single coils but with some of the features of the other "Contemporary" models like a updated trem system, string lock, 22 frets, etc. The other Contemporary models that date back to 1985 were the single H, HH, and HSS models that all had some type of trem system (System 1, System 2 or System 3), some had black finished necks, some had TBX tone controls, etc.

Your guitar could have had a System 1 trem on it that was replaced by that Kahler fulcrum trem (not sure of the model number; check out a site called wammiworld.com that might have some details) or it could have possibley had the Kahler as a factory item. The System 1s were made by Schaller but tended to have issues with some parts. Eventually Fender stopped using the System 1 and briefly used the Kahler trem. The very last of this model had the Kahler Spyder trem, which was a Floyd Rose licensed double locking trem (and those would have the Kahler nut instead of the Schaller-style string lock like your guitar). As I say, yours could be late enough to have the Kahler as a factory item, but that type of Kahler was a popular replacement for those who had problems with their System 1 trem and could not get spare parts.

On MIJ Fenders you can't go by the letter + first digit to provide an approximate date of manufacturer. While the "E" series was pretty much retired the "E" serial number MIJs can show up into the late 1980s on these kind of "odd" models like this one.

Hope that helps.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:00 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
Thanks you guys! Great info.

I'm suspecting the Kahler on the guitar may need new springs as the bridge seem to rise too high when trying to get it in standard tuning. I'll have to take pic and post to show you. Not familiar with these Kahlers at all.

That wammiworld.com link solved the mystery of the Kahler. Here's the info for others to view.

TREMOLO:
If it has "KAHLER" stamped 3 times across the topside with "Made in USA" stamped in between then you have a 2500 series Traditional model.

2500/2520 Traditional series: This is a 2500 Traditional Series Pro with black steel rollers. The 2520 Traditional series standard had brass rollers

Blueprint image:
http://www.wammiworld.com/images/X-2500W.gif

Blueprint image with clickable links to identify the part in question:
http://www.wammiworld.com/x2500.php

Other links regarding the 2500/2520 Traditional series:
http://www.wammiworld.com/images/2520-Grey.jpg
http://www.wammiworld.com/G4trad.php

Kahler tremolo identification list :
http://www.wammiworld.com/A1.php


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:09 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
I took some measurements of the Kahler as it is tuned at standard. Seems to rest very high above guitar body. Obviously the string action is super high given this.

If you have any insight to whether this is due to the Kahler springs, or the trem claw needs to be tightened closer to the guitar body, I'd love to hear suggestions.

I want to make this guitar playable. :wink:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:36 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:45 pm
Posts: 2770
Location: Kansas
warmachine wrote:
Thanks you guys! Great info.

I'm suspecting the Kahler on the guitar may need new springs as the bridge seem to rise too high when trying to get it in standard tuning. I'll have to take pic and post to show you. Not familiar with these Kahlers at all.

That wammiworld.com link solved the mystery of the Kahler. Here's the info for others to view.

TREMOLO:
If it has "KAHLER" stamped 3 times across the topside with "Made in USA" stamped in between then you have a 2500 series Traditional model.

2500/2520 Traditional series: This is a 2500 Traditional Series Pro with black steel rollers. The 2520 Traditional series standard had brass rollers

Blueprint image:
http://www.wammiworld.com/images/X-2500W.gif

Blueprint image with clickable links to identify the part in question:
http://www.wammiworld.com/x2500.php

Other links regarding the 2500/2520 Traditional series:
http://www.wammiworld.com/images/2520-Grey.jpg
http://www.wammiworld.com/G4trad.php

Kahler tremolo identification list :
http://www.wammiworld.com/A1.php


Sorry - I should have mentioned in my earlier post that I was posting from work and for some reason they have wammiworld.com blocked for its photo hosting; I can see it from my home pc so thanks for posting the info.

Looking at the photos of your guitar I would try a spring claw adjustment first; if that doesn't bring the trem down to a proper height then you might need new springs.

Good luck; I've always thought those Contemporary Standards were a cool piece of Fender history worth keeping around.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:03 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:02 am
Posts: 8609
Location: Vacaville, CA USA
From what I'm seeing it is a Contemporary Standard 22 which may or may not have had the trem changed.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.blackman4/st22.htm

Looking at your pics it looks as though the guitar needs a complete setup which does include adjusting the screws in the trem claw to bring the back of the trem down to where it should be.

_________________
Chet Feathers

Authorized TonePros Dealer
Authorized WD Music Products Dealer
F/A Official Southpaw Compliance Certification Tester http://faamps.com/

http://www.facebook.com/cafeathers


I didn't Lose my mind, I traded it for this guitar.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:31 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
John C wrote:

Sorry - I should have mentioned in my earlier post that I was posting from work and for some reason they have wammiworld.com blocked for its photo hosting; I can see it from my home pc so thanks for posting the info.

Looking at the photos of your guitar I would try a spring claw adjustment first; if that doesn't bring the trem down to a proper height then you might need new springs.

Good luck; I've always thought those Contemporary Standards were a cool piece of Fender history worth keeping around.


Thanks for the advice. I do full setups on all my guitars, but mostly are Gibson style. I am foreign to the Kahler and Floyd rose trems.

Last night I tuned the guitar down half a step and patiently made small turns to the trem claw screws. All in all I made 1 1/2 turns on each screw. Tuned back up to standard and finally the base of the Kahler is parallel with the body of the guitar. Overall action dropped a full 1/64 of an inch at the 12th fret. Next thing to do is fine tune the saddle screws to get even lower action.

I think I figured out why the Kahler was so high. There was a new set of 10's strings in the case that came with guitar and this strat for sure would have come with 9's from the factory I'd guess. I looked at guitar and it has 10's on it as well. All that string tension from upsizing and he didnt set it up for those.

I've never used 10's on a strat before, I'll have to give it a shot atleast.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:09 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
John C wrote:
As I say, yours could be late enough to have the Kahler as a factory item, but that type of Kahler was a popular replacement for those who had problems with their System 1 trem and could not get spare parts.

On MIJ Fenders you can't go by the letter + first digit to provide an approximate date of manufacturer. While the "E" series was pretty much retired the "E" serial number MIJs can show up into the late 1980s on these kind of "odd" models like this one.

Hope that helps.


I remembered I had a copy of the 1987-1988 Guitar Buyers Guide lying around. Found this in it. It mentions in the Fender Strat descriptions about the Kahler and System 1 that they are "of the locking variety"...however I don't think mine locks. Am I wrong? How do I tell?

Image
Image

Ughhh...look at this ghastly red Kahler used in main pic of accessories section
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:12 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:37 am
Posts: 16
hi,
nice MIJ stratocaster, i've got the same E (6) Serial, in red, I bought it new in 1984 your guitar is of origin (stock). i have done some pictures of the Kahler, i think that you are right when you say that there is a problem of distance between the body and the Kahler, it is to high. I hope that you have find a solution because this guitar is very easy to play and the sound is amazing. Perhaps a problem of springs !!! Sorry for my bad english, i am french. Regards. :D
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
_____________________________________________________________________________
Fender Strat 57 Reissue Black, Fender Telecaster 60th Anniversary Sunburst, Fender Strat 84 MIJ E serial Red Kahler series, Fender Strat Bullet US custom 82, Fender HR deluxe


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:36 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:15 am
Posts: 186
Location: Minneapolis, MN.
I would lower the fulcrum screws a bit, and add springs or tighten the the screws on the claw to lower the action. that is setup way too high, only good if your playing slide..

_________________
1986 Kramer Baretta
1989 Samick "The Samick" Les Paul
2007 Fender Strat MIM Deluxe / 1985 MIJ neck
1990 Epiphone Strat
Marshall JCM 2000 DLS 50 watt / Marshall 1960a 4x12

https://soundcloud.com/jim-slimjim-cassi


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:35 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:13 pm
Posts: 1
Old post but don't care. I have one in black and despite the dumb locking nut and weird Kahler bridge, it's the best Strat I've ever played.

Why? Well for starters the Japanese D shaped neck with flat 10 radius in Maple is the bomb. It's shaved smooth down toward the body if you hadn't noticed. That's a nice touch. The body route is NOT a pool route AND I'm pretty sure it's solid Alder. It has very similar electronics to the JV Serials. These had the Alnico pickups like the JV serials, but these were built with the plastic black bobbins, full size 250k tone pots and the exact same cheap 5 way switch same as some JV series guitars that I've been looking at. No tbx tone pot stuff, just straight FAT, chimy, clear, crisp, sweet tones.

I actually replaced the SCN Bill Lawrence pickups in my 2005 Deluxe Strat with MIJ E5 1985 System 1 pickups, and I don't like the E5 system 1 pickups near as much as the E7 alnico's.

The bridge on this Contemporary(unlike the other models) has the exact same spacing as Fender USA, so you can swap a Fender Deluxe bridge right over. The posts are a bit different, but they work or you can have a luthier push out the posts and install the deluxe USA posts, which are thicker.

If you're going to keep the Kahler you HAVE to buy the allen key wrench set from whammi world and you have to lock that kahler down tight so it doesn't move. That's pretty much needed to be checked with every string change. I got rid of the fine tuners, they are dumb and not needed. The locking nut Im still using but I don't lock the strings down. I may just install trees at some point, but i haven't committed to making it unoriginal yet. Also, it helps to install some low pro guitar fetish locking/staggered(gotoh style) tuners to get more of a string break going over the nut.

I set mine up myself to Fender specs with 10/46 strings, and it plays and sounds killer, and for the most part stays in tune reasonably well.

I'll never sell mine, it's simply better than any other MIJ or E Series that I've owned. I'd put it up against the JV Series as well without even have played one of those. I think they are hype plus they have the old fingerboard radius that good for nothing but cowboy chords. 7.25" puhlease

If you ever want to sell one of these, like the BLACK one, contact me!

Image

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: '86 or '87 Stratocaster MIJ with Kahler Trem. Can you i.
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:35 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 11:32 am
Posts: 1
well, I know this is still an old thread, but as someone on here asked if anyone had a black 87 contemporary with a maple neck for sale to let him know... I'm letting him know :). If interested I'll send pics next week. If not I'll just list it on ebay / reverb / etc. but I came across this thread and figured I'd start here. Message me with any interest!


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: