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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:12 am
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Maybe the .05 value of the tone cap might be the difference that you hear? Looks like the only position using the .022 is 1, and all others use the .05, so position 2 might sound muffled. :idea: (going by the diagram linked)

I think that Andybighair has you wired correctly, the other two connections to the switch from the hum-bucker won't matter with the new single-coil.

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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:22 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Maybe the .05 value of the tone cap might be the difference that you hear? Looks like the only position using the .022 is 1, and all others use the .05, so position 2 might sound muffled. :idea: (going by the diagram linked)

I think that Andybighair has you wired correctly, the other two connections to the switch from the hum-bucker won't matter with the new single-coil.


I'm not sure, I can't provide a technical explanation. I will say, with the White Wire going to the Vol Pot, and the Black Wire going to the Switch it sounds like a regular Strat. On the other hand, with the Black Wire going to the Volume Pot and the White Wire going to the Switch there's a very significant sound difference in the Middle/Bridge position. Very hollow sounding with a significant drop in volume.

Can anyone explain what might be going on? I'm not a tech guy, so I can't offer an explanation but as someone who's played numerous Strats in my lifetime... I can say with 100% certainty that if I wire it with the Black Wire to the Vol Pot, and White Wire to the Switch... the sound isn't just altered or different, it's completely unusable.


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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:38 am
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Mundty wrote:
I'm not sure, I can't provide a technical explanation. I will say, with the White Wire going to the Vol Pot, and the Black Wire going to the Switch it sounds like a regular Strat. On the other hand, with the Black Wire going to the Volume Pot and the White Wire going to the Switch there's a very significant sound difference in the Middle/Bridge position. Very hollow sounding with a significant drop in volume.

Can anyone explain what might be going on? I'm not a tech guy, so I can't offer an explanation but as someone who's played numerous Strats in my lifetime... I can say with 100% certainty that if I wire it with the Black Wire to the Vol Pot, and White Wire to the Switch... the sound isn't just altered or different, it's completely unusable.

Judging by the above description your Bridge pickup is out of phase with your middle pup.

There are ways you can check this out. Try placing your Bridge pup on top of your Middle pup (pole to pole). They should stick (I think!). If its repled your bridge pup is not a standard TS bridge pup, and you'll need to do as you already have and reverse the hot and ground wires.

Again you best get confirmation on the above as my "wiring head" is not working as well as it should today! :D

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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:15 am
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Andybighair wrote:
Mundty wrote:
I'm not sure, I can't provide a technical explanation. I will say, with the White Wire going to the Vol Pot, and the Black Wire going to the Switch it sounds like a regular Strat. On the other hand, with the Black Wire going to the Volume Pot and the White Wire going to the Switch there's a very significant sound difference in the Middle/Bridge position. Very hollow sounding with a significant drop in volume.

Can anyone explain what might be going on? I'm not a tech guy, so I can't offer an explanation but as someone who's played numerous Strats in my lifetime... I can say with 100% certainty that if I wire it with the Black Wire to the Vol Pot, and White Wire to the Switch... the sound isn't just altered or different, it's completely unusable.

Judging by the above description your Bridge pickup is out of phase with your middle pup.

There are ways you can check this out. Try placing your Bridge pup on top of your Middle pup (pole to pole). They should stick (I think!). If its repled your bridge pup is not a standard TS bridge pup, and you'll need to do as you already have and reverse the hot and ground wires.

Again you best get confirmation on the above as my "wiring head" is not working as well as it should today! :D


I'll give that a shot and see what happens. I'm going to replace the switch with a typical Fender 5-Way Switch soon so I'll have a chance to check it out then.


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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:18 am
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Mundty wrote:
Andybighair wrote:
Mundty wrote:
I'm not sure, I can't provide a technical explanation. I will say, with the White Wire going to the Vol Pot, and the Black Wire going to the Switch it sounds like a regular Strat. On the other hand, with the Black Wire going to the Volume Pot and the White Wire going to the Switch there's a very significant sound difference in the Middle/Bridge position. Very hollow sounding with a significant drop in volume.

Can anyone explain what might be going on? I'm not a tech guy, so I can't offer an explanation but as someone who's played numerous Strats in my lifetime... I can say with 100% certainty that if I wire it with the Black Wire to the Vol Pot, and White Wire to the Switch... the sound isn't just altered or different, it's completely unusable.

Judging by the above description your Bridge pickup is out of phase with your middle pup.

There are ways you can check this out. Try placing your Bridge pup on top of your Middle pup (pole to pole). They should stick (I think!). If its repled your bridge pup is not a standard TS bridge pup, and you'll need to do as you already have and reverse the hot and ground wires.

Again you best get confirmation on the above as my "wiring head" is not working as well as it should today! :D


I'll give that a shot and see what happens. I'm going to replace the switch with a typical Fender 5-Way Switch soon so I'll have a chance to check it out then.

While your swapping the switch over it may well be worth looking at the caps as Shimmilou suggested earlier. Personally I'd ditch the 0.05 and keep the 0.022 cap for both tone controls.

Best of luck!

Andy

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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:36 am
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Andybighair wrote:
While your swapping the switch over it may well be worth looking at the caps as Shimmilou suggested earlier. Personally I'd ditch the 0.05 and keep the 0.022 cap for both tone controls.

Best of luck!

Andy


I have to plead stupidity, you guys lost me when you started talking about Tone caps :oops:

Are those the capacitors you're talking about?


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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:11 pm
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Mundty wrote:
Andybighair wrote:
While your swapping the switch over it may well be worth looking at the caps as Shimmilou suggested earlier. Personally I'd ditch the 0.05 and keep the 0.022 cap for both tone controls.

Best of luck!

Andy


I have to plead stupidity, you guys lost me when you started talking about Tone caps :oops:

Are those the capacitors you're talking about?

Yep! The ones soldered to your Tone pots. The upper tone pot (Tone 1) has a 0.05mf value capacitor which according to the HSS Fat Strat diagram is available in positions 5,4,3 & 2. Tone 2 has a 0.022mf cap and is only used when in position 1.

A 0.05mf cap will allow less of the higher frequencies (treble)to pass to ground as the tone pot is turned down. A 0.022mf cap allows more highs to pass to ground.

Personally, for single coil pups I find anything above a 0.033mf cap retains too much of the pickups treble to be worth using as tone control.

0.047mf caps are commonly found on guitars with humbuckers. HB's by design (hum-cancelling) have the very top end of the high frequencies missing. A higher cap value is better used to retain some of the existing higher frequencies, so as you lower the tone control the HB doesn't get unusable and muddy.

I'm crap at explaining this sort of thing, but I hope that helps a bit! :D

Andy

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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:53 pm
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Andybighair wrote:
[A 0.05mf cap will allow less of the higher frequencies (treble)to pass to ground as the tone pot is turned down. A 0.022mf cap allows more highs to pass to ground.

Personally, for single coil pups I find anything above a 0.033mf cap retains too much of the pickups treble to be worth using as tone control.

0.047mf caps are commonly found on guitars with humbuckers. HB's by design (hum-cancelling) have the very top end of the high frequencies missing. A higher cap value is better used to retain some of the existing higher frequencies, so as you lower the tone control the HB doesn't get unusable and muddy.


Andy,

You have it backwards.

0.05 mfd caps roll off more high frequencies. That's why they and even 0.1 mfd caps were used on the bright, early single coil Fender pickups.

0.022 mfd caps roll off less high frequencies and are, in fact, what are typically used with humbuckers. Gibson's original "Bumblebee" caps were 0.022 mfd as are the current reproductions.

Most modern guitars, be they single coil, PAF humbuckers, or stacked humbuckers typically come with 0.022 mfd caps as a good overall choice.

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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:29 pm
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I think as capacitance gets bigger capacitive reactance gets smaller. Xc = 1/2pifC
That is they are inversely proportional. Lets not get into phase shifts...
As a consequence with less reactance there is less "resistance" to high frequences which bypass the pot thru the cap to ground and hence not developed on the vol control output.
Gee I'm already confused :?
Andy's check is the easy way to see if the pickups are opposite polarity i.e. the top of the poles should attract. If you don't want to remove the pickups another way is to use a compass.When held to the poles it will point north in one case and south in the other if they are not the same polarity. :D


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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:21 pm
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jimmy_james wrote:
I think as capacitance gets bigger capacitive reactance gets smaller. Xc = 1/2pifC
That is they are inversely proportional. Lets not get into phase shifts...
As a consequence with less reactance there is less "resistance" to high frequences which bypass the pot thru the cap to ground and hence not developed on the vol control output.
Gee I'm already confused :?
Andy's check is the easy way to see if the pickups are opposite polarity i.e. the top of the poles should attract. If you don't want to remove the pickups another way is to use a compass.When held to the poles it will point north in one case and south in the other if they are not the same polarity. :D


My expalnation is simple and correct.

FYI: I have a degree in electrical engineering. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:07 pm
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To add more confusion to the matter, I just realized the noise-cancelation is not present in the Bridge/Middle Position as it is in the Neck/Middle Position. I'm honestly shocked at this whole, and not sure what to think...


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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:19 pm
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Mundty wrote:
To add more confusion to the matter, I just realized the noise-cancelation is not present in the Bridge/Middle Position as it is in the Neck/Middle Position. I'm honestly shocked at this whole, and not sure what to think...

...you're in a long, dark tunnel. But, there's light at the end of the tunnel. Once you get past the learning phase (the long dark tunnel), all of this will make perfect sense to you and you will have better command over the sounds you produce (the light at the end of the tunnel)!

So, be patient. Try things out. Find what works for you!


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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:20 pm
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Yes Bill (bluesky) you are correct and no one was disagreeing with you.
I was just trying to explain the theory behind it.
I too have quals in electronics and work in electronics (25yrs) but sometimes have to take myself back to the basic principles behind them.
In additon that is not to say I always get it right :lol:


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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:04 pm
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Mundty wrote:
To add more confusion to the matter, I just realized the noise-cancelation is not present in the Bridge/Middle Position as it is in the Neck/Middle Position. I'm honestly shocked at this whole, and not sure what to think...


Just get a regular 5-way CRL switch and quit screwing around. You'll feel so much better in the morning. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: HSS-to-SSS Conversion - Wiring Help
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:04 pm
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jimmy_james wrote:
Yes Bill (bluesky) you are correct and no one was disagreeing with you.
I was just trying to explain the theory behind it.
I too have quals in electronics and work in electronics (25yrs) but sometimes have to take myself back to the basic principles behind them.
In additon that is not to say I always get it right :lol:


In a non-technical discussion, I prefer KISS. :lol:

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