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Post subject: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 am
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I installed replaced a Wilkinson nut with an LSR nut on my Strat Ultra, but I'm having an issue. The high E string doesn't seem to be sitting right in the nut - it buzzes in the nut, as if its rattling around - very dead string. If I push down behind the nut even just a little, it improves greatly, though it still seems a little dead and buzzy to me. Its difficult to tell exactly where the buzz is coming from.
One thing I'm not clear on - should the string be making solid contact with the black foam on the back of the nut? It seems like its buzzing against that.
In reality, I'm not sure of the history of this nut. I bought it quite some time ago, off of eBay, I believe (new?). IIRC, I've had issues with ball bearings falling out - in particular, the 'retainers' for the high E look a little bent to me, but the string isn't hitting those (and pressure on the back of the nut wouldn't compensate for that if it was).
I've just ordered another LSR (new), to see if if there's any difference (before I put the Wilkinson back on), but I thought I'd check if this is something anyone has seen, if if I might have done something wrong during installation - like, how critical should the angle of the screws be?
Thoughts / advice?


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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:26 am
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Hi mblout, Welcome to the Fender Forum! The LSR nut is usually a better nut that the Wilkinson, in that it takes different strings sizes better and is easier to string. If you have a buzz on the high string it is one of three things: 1) It is a LSR for larger gauge strings (most come for .09 or .10 and will handle .11 ok. So I doubt that is the problem. 2) The rubber cushion under the string is missing or a ball bearing is missing (very likely this could be it from what you have said) or 3) You need to put a small shim under the high string side of the nut. The LSR should have come with some very small shim tab of various thicknesses. If you shim it up it could cause the string to up off the fretboard a little more and have a better angle toward the frets and tuners.

What sized strings are you using? Was the nut new when you bought it?

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Last edited by Xhefri on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:07 am
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Somebody is learning something here and it might be me, I'm not sure yet but I suspect it's gonna be you guys. Rubber? Foam? I've owned 2 guitars with the LSR nut and still own one. I have never, ever seen or even heard of any black foam or rubber cushion. I just examined my Strat's LSR nut to make sure I wasn't missing something or going blind. I used a flashlight, a magnifying glass and a dentist style seal pick and really searched. No foam whatsoever. I'm reasonably confident there never was because when the guitar was new I was fascinated by that nut and looked closely at it often. I would have noticed. I have never had a single issue of any kind with either of the two LSR nuts that I have owned and my guitars see a lot of use. I propose the foam or rubber you fellows are seeing must be some kind of packing material that was never meant to stay there. Think about it. I have no foam and no issues. You have foam and you have issues. I think we're going to need an expert in here.

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:27 am
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I just had to go and have a squizz at mine. Defo no foam there.
None under it, none near the bearings, none what so ever...

Keith


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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:37 am
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Now for the anatomy of the LSR roller nut! :idea: Below I have some pictures of a LSR nut that came off a Strat Plus. Look carefully at the tip of my knife on the first picture and you will see the small rubber bumper (I will call it that for lack of a better term!) This small piece of rubber helps hold the ball bearings in place and prevents string rattle. No foam but there is a small rubber bumper! (Where did the "foam" word come from in this discussion? :shock: LOL!)

Image

In this next picture (below) you will see how there are two small metal tabs that actually help keep the ball bearing from falling out. These are bent back and the bearings are missing. You can again see the small rubber bumper down inside the string slot. If the rubber part is missing, one could get a lot of string chatter, not to mention the bearings falling out. I have seen that over the years this rubber part will shrink, crack, and will fall out when changing strings. Thus the bearings are lost as well in the carpet or under some dog hair.... :lol:

Image

The next picture shows the shims I was talking about. These come in various thicknesses and are used to get the nut height proper. If too low, the string will buzz. If too high the string will feel more uncomfortable when playing the first 3 frets. It is better to have it be a tad too high than too low. :shock:

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:26 pm
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Hmmm... I guess I'll take a closer look.

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:45 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Somebody is learning something here and it might be me, I'm not sure yet but I suspect it's gonna be you guys. Rubber? Foam? I've owned 2 guitars with the LSR nut and still own one. I have never, ever seen or even heard of any black foam or rubber cushion.

I am smiling! :D I have owned a few Strat Plus' too! That is what I like about this Forum. I learn things a lot on here. All LSR nuts are the same. I have about 3 extra ones under my work bench along with 3 or four extra Wilkinson nuts. All LSR nuts have this small soft rubber cushion built into them as it was part of their design from the start.

BTW do you have a BMW and a KTM. A friend of mine has a nice KTM and it is really fun to ride...in the summer that is!

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:17 pm
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Well I'll be damned. Look at that. Upon closer inspection I do find there is an insert in there. Mine isn't black like your picture indicates, it's a grey colour very close to the colour of the nut. Maybe it's picked up some colour from rubbing on the strings. I don't know.

I do in fact have a BMW street bike and a KTM dirt bike. They're both getting a little old now but they're both still better than anything the other makers have come up with before or since. My Bimmer is a K12RSL and my KTM is a 380EX/C. I've ridden a Honda ST11 and a Kawi Concours and they don't come even close to the Bimmer in any category except size and genre. The 380 has no peers at all of any kind. It is the last of the big bore open class 2 strokes. Stronger than any 4 stroke in current production by any company and at least 30 lbs. lighter. Think 250cc 2 stroke motocrosser. Now add a wide ratio transmission, a little more flywheel weight and 50% - 60% more power. Mine has more power off the pipe than a 125cc 2 stroke crosser has on the pipe. Now triple or quadruple that and that's what I have on the pipe. Combine that with what is arguably the best suspension ever devised and you have a bike that goes like a raped ape.

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:33 pm
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Very cool...I do not mean to hijack this thread, but I have to comment. Your BMW is getting old??? LOL! They never get old! They run and run and run...... I grew up in a BMW owning home. As early as I can remember my dad had a BMW. I was raised on the back of them. We use to tour all over the place. My dad rode his like 10 months out of the year in Montana!!!! The picture below from 1963 shows him on an R69. My mom had the 250cc model for years. I later bought a 1960 R69S. Loved it BTW.

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:45 pm
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I think it was 1972 the first time I saw a BMW motorcycle. I would have been 12 or 13 pumping gas at my dad's shop. Old guy from Nova Scotia pulled up for a fill up. I was already heavy into bikes, my dad bought me my first mini-bike when I was 8 or 9 and I was hopelessly addicted. I couldn't keep myself from talking to this old guy about his bike. He was retired and spent his summers touring across Canada. In the fall he'd head south and spend his winters touring across southern USA. He told me he already had a half a million miles on the bike which I seem to recollect was an early 60's R65. I am always surprised by how many people didn't know BMW made motorcycles. When I run across these folks I like to weird them out even more by telling them they made bikes before they ever made cars. One of my favourite rides is the Oregon coastline. Oregon is a friendly state with beautiful ocean scenery. I wanted to do it last year but I couldn't get any time off. Maybe this year. I also wouldn't mind bringing the Katoom down to Florence and ripping through the dunes. I did Glamis a couple of times and it was a riot!

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:34 pm
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Guitars & Motorcycles! Could a thread get any better?

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:37 am
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mhowell wrote:
Guitars & Motorcycles! Could a thread get any better?


Speaking of combining guitars and motorcycles.....

I actually bought this nylon apparatus a number of years ago that straps onto the guitar case and then provides you with shoulder straps and a belt strap so you can carry your guitar on your back like wearing a back-pack. It was my intention to use it riding the bike but it didn't work out very well. It works quite well if you're just walking but not so good on the bike. Once the shoulder straps are tight enough that the guitar doesn't flop around in the wind then the part of the case that houses the headstock pushes against the back of your helmet forcing your head to point down and giving you a sore neck. I made several attemps to find some kind of wedge to go between my back and the guitar to angle the case up and away from my head but nothing I tried seemed very safe or secure. Maybe I should revisit that problem this spring.

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:52 am
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Very cool. I saw a guy strap his guitar to a sissy bar on his Harley one time. MAN, mblout started this thread. We all gave input and he has never gotten back with us! What's up with that???

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut problems - high E buzzing badly
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:08 pm
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OK.. not to get too back-on-topic..:) I ordered a new LSR (Music Parts Plus - $22!) and popped it on (30 mins ago), and its much better. But still a bit more of a buzz on the E than I would like - but again, much better.
I used shims (cut from a gap gauge), so its up a little, but I think I'll try just a little more (I had the same shims under the old one).
I also wound the string around the tuning post as much as I could to make sure its pulling down as much as possible. Pushing down has very little effect, but does clean it up slightly. (I'm using .10's).
With the old nut, I also noticed that not just pushing down cleaned it up, but pushing IN did also - pushing the string toward the center of the headstock. So with the last nut, I wound the string backward to pull it in (I'm not doing that with the new nut).
And, "foam" was my word... I had no idea what that substance was. I might experiment a little with the old one now, but putting in new rubber that i cut from somewhere, etc...I'm guessing I can't get just the rubber anywhere.
I can certainly live with it the way it is, but I've never heard on anyone mention a buzz. Any thoughts? Thanks for the info!


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