Law of physics: if the empty string is tuned perfectly, the empty string and the harmonic over 12th fret are ALWAYS the same!

So it does not matter, whether you compare the fretted string at 12th fret with the harmonic over that fret or with the empty string.
As long as you compare the fretted string at the 12th fret with EITHER ONE OF THEM, you're fine!

Laws of physics as I know them since 6th grade highschool (no pun intended towards you!! I just mention it!) and as confirmed by the studied physician and owner of this high end guitar manufacturing company in my home town:
http://www.basslab.de/

I might be wrong sometimes, but with this I'm absolutely sure and if he doesn't know, who else??? He's developping AND building his guitars.

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Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!

As sure as you are of your statment, that's how sure I am that yours is wrong. I stand by my position. Harmonics are far too easily confused by a number of factors. Intonation being one of them. Dead strings being another. I am not going to continue to lock horns with you on this subject. Post all the so-called proof you wish. Other peoples "expertise" is irrelevant. It won't change the truth. The simple fact remains that intonation takes length AND tension into account and harmonics take only length into account. Therefore actually fretting a note for the purpose of setting or checking intonation is a requirement. Nuf sed. I'm done with this.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

not if ur playing a song with harmoniccs

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Fender Starcaster
Estaban G-10 Amp
Fender medium celluloid picks
Planet waves NT lite capo
Planet waves strap

use a screwdriver to adjust the saddles if its flat move your saddle forward if it's sharp move it back.

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Fender Starcaster
Estaban G-10 Amp
Fender medium celluloid picks
Planet waves NT lite capo
Planet waves strap

I'm in no way trying to start a fight, I'm just trying to clear a misunderstanding.

I fully agree with what you're saying in this quote. YOU HAVE TO FRET THE STRING AT 12TH FRET! No argue from my position here.

All I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you compare THE FRETTED 12TH FRET with either the harmonic OR the empty string.

And that's exactly what the first poster did. He fretted at the 12th and compared to the harmonic over the 12th.

So you are absolutely right with everything you said, except the statement, that NO HARMONICS can be used for setting intonation. Both, the empty string AND the harmonic use LENGTH ONLY! You HAVE TO compare the FRETTED tone on 12th fret to SOMETHING, right? So, where's the TENSION in comparing with the empty stroked string??? See what I mean?? No tension on empty string, no tension on harmonics but physically both have identical readings on a tuner. It's not possible in any other way! BASIC PHYSICS.

I don't know, but either it's a language problem here (I don't know where you are) or you simply don't read my and his posts carefully enough. I'm out of this discussion now. Nuff said.

_________________
Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!

Dieter, Du verwendest ja auch GC für alle Gitarrenshops, die's gibt.

Doesn't make much sense to use compare fretted vs harmonic. It's also not very handy.

Greetz

David

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"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

YEP!!

_________________
Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!

BTW, woher weißt Du?? Oute Dich!

_________________
Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!

Just followed the links your provided in your signature. You seem to know about helicopters, but I'm not so sure about intonation

Cheers

David

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"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

Can you guys comment? I don't have a very accurate tuner, just a $20 Korg handheld. I tune, then use the harmonic at the 12th to check my tune. It does seem to accentuate if I am not quite there. I'll adjust so that both are in agreement. I find that when intonation is way off, they won't agree, which makes sense because the harmonic will be in a physically different location than right ar the 12th. In that case, I fret and move intonation closer to target, retune, recheck harmonic for agreement. In all cases, I've observed that when my intonation is good, the open and 12'th harmonic agree.

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2002 mim Telecaster
Jimmie Vaughan Stratocaster
Mexican HSS Stratocaster
6 non-fender guitars
2 kids (not for sale)
1 wife (uh....no comment)

As I wrote in my previous posts:

Please tune, then compare to FRETTED 12 fret.

OR (and in this point some people disagree):

Please tune, the compare FRETTED 12th fret with harmonic over 12th fret.

DO NOT compare the tuned open string to the harmonic!

There must always be a FRETTED 12th fret to be compared.

_________________
Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!

Oh, I see, and that probably lead you to my other channel with some helicopter videos, I guess?

Yes, I do know about helicopters quite a bit.

_________________
Kindest regards from Germany, Dee
My recordings --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=564337
STRATS ROCK!!! but Teles and Firebirds, too!

No.
Sorry.
Wrong.
Do not use harmonics at all. Ever. Period. Do not compare a 12th fret harmonic with EITHER a fretted 12th fret OR an open string. Harmonics are not to be used. At all. You compare the open string to the fretted 12th, nothing else. As for your question about the open string, well, that can be considered as a fretted note for the purpose of intonation. In fact back in the day it was actually a fretted note only the guitar was doing the fretting.

You say you agree with what I've previously said and then you counter it with a nonsensical argument. What I said was ...

If harmonics can be confused by intonation then how can you possibly use harmonics to check intonation? Answer? You can't. Nuf Sed.

If you can't comprehend this then I'm not going to discuss it anymore.

For the rest of the members reading this, well, you know ....



Actually this may be my last post here, folks. I am growing weary of banging my head against the wall after 3 years of people arguing that black is really white. This is not directed at you personally Smokin'. You seem reasonably knowledgeable. You're wrong on this particular point but other than that I haven't found much wrong with your posts but there are a thousand other people who continually post drivel and I am getting tired of it.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

For what its worth I having a lot of trouble setting the intonation on an instrument. I have checked the tuning on one string and got a different value for open , fretted and the harmonic.

Dude, don't quit. Just use the "ignore" list. My blood pressure has dropped 20 points since I started using it.

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Bill