My question was generated by this thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62367 in which the PO has fuzzed out the serial numbers of his guitar, while asking for help in verifying it's authenticity. Of course, these questions frequently comes up on internet forums and usually the bestest/fastest way to answer the questions, is by using the instruments serial numbers.

Anyway, when I queried the OP as to why he attempted to obfuscate the numbers, he replied that he wanted to avoid having some unknown person claim that his new/used guitar had been stolen.

His concern is easy to understand so here are my questions:

Is that actually possible?
Have you ever heard of that taking place?
Has that ever happened to you?
If so, what was the outcome?
If the returned guitar was yours, after you received it, did you have to reimburse your insurance company?

Everyplace that I've lived, theft reports have to be made within a short period after the crime and you also have to come up with proof of ownership and submit a detailed description of the property in order to file a report.

So... Once again. Can someone simply go to their Police Station with a serial number like K743893 for example or my Strat number EJ12637, claim my guitar and walk away with it?

That kinda scam seems like a lot of work for a small or unlikely pay off and I've never known of a guitar being recovered after a theft anyway but this is one crazy world!.

In this day and age, armed with a little info, crooks can do all sorts of evil tricks, don't dismiss the possibility of anything. I keep receipts and don't buy guitars from thieves or crackheads, so I think that I'm covered if I show a serial number in a picture. But, am I?

I can tell you that I sold a stereo, on a "payment plan", to a neighbor once, for which I had the original receipt from the new purchase. When my neighbor refused to make payments, I took the stereo back. He later called the cops and got "his" stereo back because he claimed that I stole it, even though I had the receipt. He had no proof whatsoever that he had even ever possessed the stereo. Not saying what is right in this case, just that the "neighbor" had no proof whatsoever that he had the stereo, but managed to convince the cops. I can see how someone armed with only a picture and a sn, might be able to pull some insurance fraud or something.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Hello mymindsok: so you've got my stolen EJ Sig Strat, huh? I've been to the cops and they're on their way to your front door as we speak...

Cheers - C

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Yeah,

Thats exactly the kind of situation I'm referring to!

You make a bogus claim that a guitar that belongs to me belongs to you. Now... When did your theft take place? When was the report filed? Yesterday? Really! Where was it filed? Chicago? But the guitars in Nevada! Can you supply identifying information? Do you have a receipt? Is there a paper trail that proves how the guitar ended up in your hands before it was stolen?

One of the things that brings this up for me is that Fender records all of their serial numbers and that means that they can trace a guitar from the factory, to their dealers and by law, dealers keep their own records. The buyer gets a receipt and the warranty card has the serial number stamped on it.

I don't see how this scam can work and I guess you don't either.

OTOH, if I was going to fake a guitar and needed a serial number, I'd go out on the web, find a collectors site, pick a number that was in the correct series to match whatever it was I was faking and then print a decal on my computer. That seems way simpler and more fool proof than stealing a number from you but then again, I don't steal things.

The cases that get my attention are when someone shows up at a site like this one and says; "I just paid a guy several hundred+ or more dollars for this Strat and have no idea what it is, so please tell me what model I have, how it should be equipped and what it's worth. Thanks."

The more of those posts I see, the stranger it seems that knowledgeable people are frequently falling all over themselves to answer those questions.

Hi again mymindsok: really I was just making a small joke, fret not.

And if the joke had a serious point to make it was that even if this actually has happened somewhere sometime it is not a significant risk since, as you indicate, nobody knows who you are or where you live.

And honestly, if someone was counterfeiting guitars there are so many easier ways to come up with legit serial numbers than wasting time trawling internet forums. A quick glance at Fender's own info on serials nets you as many thousands or millions of s/ns as you may require. No need to hunt them down.

I suspect people shouldn't get this stuff out of proportion.

Cheers - C

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As a cop in a small town in NC, I can tell your for a fact that if someone had your serial number, they really could report to the police that this particular guitar was stolen from them. There would be an incident report made at the P.D., and then the serial number, or an owner applied number (like a drivers license number) would be entered into NCIC or DCI, which are national databases. This is where things would get real nasty....the person then in possession of the guitar "could" be charged with possession of stolen property! If this happened, then the guitar would be seized until the case was dealt with in court. If the innocent person could then produce a reciept where he bought the guitar in good faith as new, or from an online mega-store, then the fraudulent "victim" would then be charged with filing a false police report! That's what would likely happen. If you could not produce a receipt....then the thug may get your axe and you get a criminal record.....and community service LOL. Keep those numbers kinda private folks! This was of course just what "could" happen ...... Save those receipts too!

Hey, no upset and no foul! It's just that this whole thing appears to be blown out of proportion.

For the most part, Fenders are just collections of parts that are produced by the tens of thousands every year. I would presume that if someone stole my guitar, it's just be gone and I'd make a useless police report and get repaid by my insurance company.

OTOH, one of my axes I bought used and I have no paper trail for it but what-the-Hell, I recently swapped the neck and now t doesn't have a serial number.

OTOH, I'm not going to sweat some as***le in NC filing a claim against me for my Strat. Small Town, NC is a world away from where I live! I'd probably just make a copy of my receipt and mail it to Barny Fife. Case closed. Small town cops 1/2 a world away, don't keep me up at night. I have asteroids and rogue planets to worry about.

Just because something could happen doesn't mean that it's going to happen. Not by a long shot!

And yet you posted, asking if it was possible, and apparently it is. You might come out on top after you get out of jail and get your proof. But once the report is made, the police will act on it, and your receipt means nothing until you go to court.

I think that I see what you are saying, you suspect that a guitar that has the sn blocked in pictures like this may be stolen and the poster doesn't want it identified by revealing the sn. That could be possible also, but in either case what's the harm in withholding the number to be on the safe side?

Just because you can't see the real possibility, doesn't mean someone else can't. No call for the small-town put-down though.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

I'm sorry, but this is still the United States where you are innocent until proven guilty and the prosecution is the party that has to prove who the real owner of the guitar is, not the accused. But then, maybe you do things differently in small North Carlolina towns. A good attorney would eat this case for lunch and have room left over for dinner.

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Bill

Innocence till proof of guilt is just a fairy tale to keep you compliant. It doesn't happen in practice.

Anyways back to more important issues. This whole subject has been blown out of proportion. Though not because of the filing of false theft claims. It's more to do with not allowing counterfeiters access to vital information. By not posting your serial number on your 1 of 2 Fender/Gibson joint effort masterpiece. You are in effect helping the protection of your investment.
That investment needs to be weighed and considered carefully. Anyone with half a brain will likely hit a production line instrument's serial no' by guesswork. Whether it matches spec is another matter. For instance every counterfeiter must know that you can go Z6 + five numbers of their choice.

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No no and no

The database is nationwide, meaning that barney fife (that's me) would notify your local department to come pick you up Hiding in another state is not what it used to be.....just food for thought.

What about hiding in another country Steve? We've a borderles world now.

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No no and no

It works the same way anywhere in the US. For example, if I have a fresh black eye, and call the police and tell them that you did it, you will be arrested, no ifs, ands, or buts. This is a big city, so much for that. How could you prove that you didn't? Video?

I'm sorry too, the reality is that these days if someone accuses you, you are guilty unless you can prove your innocence. I hate it, but that is the way it is. And, at what cost to prove you are innocent?

And, as I already pointed out, you might be able to prove your case after you get out of jail, but will have already suffered the injustice and expense. It can and does happen. I used to see it mostly for domestic issues where one lies about the other, has him arrested, then refuses to testify against him, starting the cycle over. The law now says that any evidence of injury and one or both must be arrested.


Edit: hit preview and saw the responses,
+1 nikininja and Steve-oh-no

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

This thread is ridiculous. People post their serial number and detailed photos of their guitar showing pot numbers, neck numbers, etc. in this and other guitar forums all the time. We even ask them to do so to help determine if their guitar/amp is real. Has anyone ever read a post by someone who has actually had this happen to them? I cannot say that I have ever seen such a post on this forum, TDPRI, StratTalk, or TGP. But I'm not going to waste my time searching for one. If this is really a concern than

1. Don't post your serial number or any specific information about your guitar in a forum,

2. Don't ask someone to post their serial number or specific information about their guitar in a forum.

That's the only way to be sure no one gets in trouble. The forums also become less than useful.

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Bill

No kidding Bluesky...

So I'm sitting here with my EJ Strat. The one I bought from my local dealer, paid for with my CC, and have several receipts and service records for. The one that has been in photos on the INTERNET ever since my HNGD posts four years ago and the one that Fender serviced at Fender Corp under warranty and you're telling me that the laws in your state say that anyone, anyplace, (Like in some Podunk town in North Carolina.), can file a police report claiming I stole my guitar from them and subsequently, I'm going to be arrested, arraigned and jailed in my hometown clear on the other side of America and all of this on his, her or some cops say-so? Examples please.

Then theres "shimmilou's" idea that you can show up at a police station, in whatever city you live in, claim that I assaulted you and gave you a black eye and your police department will have me arrested and jailed in my home state, several time zones away. Man-O-Man.... What are you guys smokin? Please post an example or two of these things happening in real life.

Maybe we are living in a police state but I don't believe it and I'm not going to worry until someone shows up with some clear examples of these things taking place in real life. I think that it's time for someone to post a few examples. That is what I asked for but so far, not one.

PS : I'm not hiding. I live right here, where the sun shines every day!