It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:38 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:49 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:58 am
Posts: 2187
mymindsok wrote:

...I have Strats that are set up using both systems and they operate and feel exactly the same and in either case, the bridge absolutely cannot move unless you apply significant force (Much more force than string tension!) to move it....




Just to add to that, my strat has 10's on it and its much easier to play then my Heritage 140 (LP type), fitted with 11's.....

_________________
"Epitaph on a blues musician’s tombstone: “I didn’t wake up this morning”" Davy Knowles


facebook.com/313DBC


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:31 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 67
ZZDoc wrote:
Adey: Your findings are a valuable contribution to our body of knowledge on this
instrument. However, do keep in mind that the setup as manufactured is the product of the artist's 'ear' and how he wanted this instrument to sound. As for your overall assessment of the guitar, those of us who own them couldn't agree with you more.


Well, theres also the factor that most or at least many players are always experimenting with their set-ups and what works for one Strat may well not work for the next one or the next guy or for the next song.

Interestingly enough a company called Raw Vintage sells sets of thinner/lighter Tremolo Springs that are supposed to add tone to Strats. They've received some positive reviews here and there. I bought a set but haven't tried em yet. Just one more byway in the search for tone I guess.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:48 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:39 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: Birmingham UK
ZZDoc wrote:
Adey: ...However, do keep in mind that the setup as manufactured is the product of the artist's 'ear' and how he wanted this instrument to sound. As for your overall assessment of the guitar, those of us who own them couldn't agree with you more..


Oh absolutely ZZDoc. I entirely agree. It wouldn't be a a Clapton sig if it wasn't set up the way he wanted. Just suggesting that once you own a guitar, it's yours to do what you will with it, and that it might be worth 'exploring' it's boundaries a little. Especially with a guitar like the Clapton, as Eric's choice effectively disables a whole side of it's potential.. :wink:

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:31 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:19 pm
Posts: 39
To block or no to block, that is the question ... must admit I am a fan of the old block myself .... I experimented heavily with blocking the trem of my first EJ, a few years back. Used to keep the perfect widget on a string to quickly pull out mid-set... then some wag put a tampon in place of the block whilst I was on a comfort break ... must admit it sounded much the same and got a big laugh when I pulled the string. I got my own back when I dropped said tampon in his pint.

The moral of this story is ... that a blocked trem sounds different and always use five springs. Tampons are useful for drying sweaty fingers, look great hanging from the tuning pegs and mopping up beer.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:15 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:14 pm
Posts: 148
My 2007 "Blackie" from the rear. There was no wood block there, but that could have been removed by the previous owner. I kind of doubt that, since the case itself is pristine and looks like it has never been touched, the Fender guitar strap is still in its wrapping and rubber bands, and the neck and fret board look like they've never been touched since it left the factory.
Image
-
Fresh neck:
Image
-
Fresh case:
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:19 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 67
Nice looking guitar but thats an ugly blob of solder at the ground wire!

I could be wrong but I checked at Fender's site and the factory spec is for that model is to have a blocked trem. (That means it should use a block!) Your guitar is decked EJ style, but with fewer springs.

I'm sure that theres a minor difference in the way the guitar sounds using one system or the other but I've used both and I can't remember noticing it.


adey wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
Adey: ...However, do keep in mind that the setup as manufactured is the product of the artist's 'ear' and how he wanted this instrument to sound. As for your overall assessment of the guitar, those of us who own them couldn't agree with you more..


Oh absolutely ZZDoc. I entirely agree. It wouldn't be a a Clapton sig if it wasn't set up the way he wanted. Just suggesting that once you own a guitar, it's yours to do what you will with it, and that it might be worth 'exploring' it's boundaries a little. Especially with a guitar like the Clapton, as Eric's choice effectively disables a whole side of it's potential.. :wink:


What can I add?

I've had my EJ Sig for a few years now and I've finally decided within myself, that it's OK to screw around with it. I guess that that means that it's becoming "Just another Guitar" despite its cost and specs.

Yes, I love it. I love the way it looks, the way it sounds and the way it plays but I've finally accepted that fact this it's MY guitar. I guess that took a while this time, huh? :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:24 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:25 pm
Posts: 375
Location: Ohio
I'll add my two cents to the whole blocked/decked vs. floating debate. First, the fellow that posted that blocking works better feel-wise than decking the trem plate to the body with enough spring tension to render it immobile: you can't argue with physics. Still is Still no matter how you achieve it. Once the bridge is made to not move, the only things influencing playability (once neck adjustments are made) are the strings. Therefore when playing a 25.5" scale, the string tension and consequently the force required to intonate bends properly will be the same. In your defense, I will say that perception is reality in the ear of the beholder. That's why people swear by mods they perform; the perception is created at the time the person "buys in", or commits to his modification and after hearing the same guitar for a long time, any minute change can be interpreted as huge.

To the rest of the debate I will analogize the philosphy of BOSE. A lot of people define musicality as being able to hear the whole spectrum of sound. BOSE takes a different approach in that they place an emphasis on "everyday listening". People will tire of huge, chest pounding bass and shrill treble sonic extremes and adjust their sound systems to a comfortable range with cut at both ends. They maximized the efficiency of their speaker systems to accentuate this rounded spectrum and that's why people liked the sound.

The difference between a decked trem and one that's free-floating is the decked, or blocked guitar has a bit more sustain, but at a sacrifice of the "sparkle" that strat pickups are known for. To the other extreme, the floating trem sacrifices some sustain for more top end that single coils produce; that traditional quack that we've heard ever since the guitar was invented. Leo didn't intend for the trem to be decked, blocked or hardtailed, and it's a widely known fact that he liked painful, shrill tones due to either poor hearing or the fact that he was a builder and not a musician.

So there it is, the psychology of sound. Does one method work better than the other? Completely subjective. Does the sound change immensely? Absolutely: to the guy who adjusted his guitar to do what he wants to hear. Can any of you tell whether my guitar has a decked, or floating bridge? Not likely!

_________________
60th Anniversary AD Strat, Deluxe Nashville Tele, Player's P Bass. Mesa/Boogie Mk IV combo, Marshall JCM800, 1960A cab, Genz Benz El Diablo 60, Genz 2x12" cab, too many neat little practice amps and kit projects!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:45 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:14 pm
Posts: 148
mymindsok wrote:
Nice looking guitar but thats an ugly blob of solder at the ground wire!

I could be wrong but I checked at Fender's site and the factory spec is for that model is to have a blocked trem. (That means it should use a block!) Your guitar is decked EJ style, but with fewer springs.

...

There are three more springs in the case, which seems like one too many, but I've learned from owning other Fender products not to trust what their website says :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:17 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
For some time now I have had my trem blocked with a machined aluminum block and 5 springs that were tightened just enough to keep them from rattling. I have been very happy with the sound. Tonight, after reading this thread, I decided to tighten the trem claw all the way to the body wall, pull all 5 springs tight, and remove the block. Interestingly enough, there is a noticable difference between the two setups. With all 5 springs pulled tight and no block, the sound seems a little brighter and maybe slightly more resonant with better sustain then with the aluminum block in place. The 5 springs seem to be a little "more lively" than before also. Which sound do I like better? I'm not sure yet, but I am intrigued enough to continue playing without the block for now. 8)

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:11 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
What we know of the R&D in the mid 1980's on what was to become the new EC Signature Strat came to realize a setup in which the trem claw was fast to the wood, five springs, the bridge decked, the mass block fast to the rout wall in front of it, and a wood 'spacer' snug between the mass block and the rout wall behind it. Having played the old Blackie set up as such sans wood block for all those years, the question has yet to be put as to why now?. We know that Eric wanted the sense of a 'hardtail' but liked what the springs had to offer, and was looking for the 'bark' of a LP, hence the midboost. As for the inclusion of a wood block, on an earlier reply I posted Todd Krause's remarks via Rob Schwarz that it might very well have been a tone issue. Suppose that, during the R&D they tried it both ways and Eric opted for the wood block. For the answer, Todd referred to the two Fender execs who were on that project and might know.

In the end, Joelski pretty much has it well put, hence I refer you to the archives of Premier Guitar and a series of three article entitled..'The Psychology of Tone.' Definitely worth the read.

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:43 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:34 pm
Posts: 10760
Location: Athens, Greece
ZZDoc wrote:
and was looking for the 'bark' of a LP, hence the midboost.


If Eric looked for that Gibson growling bark, he might put a full-sized ceramic humbucker in the bridge position rather than using active electronics.

Personally I opt for both: midboost and humbucking pickups together. This combo makes for an extremely versatile guitar.

The only guitarist who used such kind of setup was Richie Sambora.

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:40 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
Image[/quote]
It was a 12db midboost, if memory serves. P.S. I hope that wasn't photographed outside your front door :!: :shock:

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:59 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 67
chromeface wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
and was looking for the 'bark' of a LP, hence the midboost.


If Eric looked for that Gibson growling bark, he might put a full-sized ceramic humbucker in the bridge position rather than using active electronics.

Personally I opt for both: midboost and humbucking pickups together. This combo makes for an extremely versatile guitar.

The only guitarist who used such kind of setup was Richie Sambora.

Image



Oh...

So now we're going to second guess GOD are we?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:44 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:34 pm
Posts: 10760
Location: Athens, Greece
ZZDoc wrote:
It was a 12db midboost, if memory serves.


It's a Masterbuilt Cherry Burst Sambora Strat crafted by Todd Krause.

Has the full 25dB boost w/ active bypass switch, DiMarzio PAF/Texas Specials combo, graduated MOP stars and Floyd Rose trem as the picture suggests.

Only the post-1999 models with the ceramic stack humbuckers, small MOP stars and American Vintage hardware came with the 12db boost.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:14 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
chromeface wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
It was a 12db midboost, if memory serves.


It's a Masterbuilt Cherry Burst Sambora Strat crafted by Todd Krause.

Has the full 25dB boost w/ active bypass switch, DiMarzio PAF/Texas Specials combo, graduated MOP stars and Floyd Rose trem as the picture suggests.

Only the post-1999 models with the ceramic stack humbuckers, small MOP stars and American Vintage hardware came with the 12db boost.

Thus, neither the MIA or MIM production models truly reflected the stage guitar. Not surprised.

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: