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Post subject: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:18 am
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This might satisfy prior inquiries once and for all.

Rob Schwarz was kind enough to go to 'the mountain' in response to a discussion we were having on another Forum. Todd Krause advises that when the trem claw is set flush against the wall of the rout, with five springs affixed to the mass block, which brings the mass block flush against the wall of its rout, the setup effectively creates a 'hardtail'. He claims that one can actually feel the springs vibrate when the guitar is played. The trem thus is inoperable. He speculates on the reason for adding a wood block in the space thus created as possibly adding something to the tone, but sees no real need for it.

I'm thinking back to the previous posts inquiring as to how to 'stop' the trem block, in that this is the way the Clapton factory guitars are set, prior to installing the wood block. As far as whether or not EC's stage guitars contain the wood block [the old Blackie did not] I chose not to pursue the question. Should it matter, perhaps someone presently doing a project with Todd might inquire.

Doc :wink:

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:48 am
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Great info which confirms what many of us who deck the bridge like this have felt about the tone. The springs add a reverb effect, and decking gives better sustain and sound benefit. If Clapton never used a block of wood in his Strats, then a block of wood shouldn't be anywhere near his signature Strat (make sense?). I know that ME said that "Blackie" had no block when they had it for examination, which begs the question, "where did the idea for the wood block come from?" I still maintain that Clapton at least tried a block at one time, otherwise why put one in his sig Strats? Every sig model comes with a wood block...?

I wonder if you misspoke about the mass block being flush with the trem route, and meant instead that the claw was flush against the route, as I don't see the block touching the route when the bridge is flush. :idea: I could be missing something, not being arbitrary, just want to be clear. Thanks for posting. :)

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Last edited by shimmilou on Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:50 am
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That's good information for some of the inquiring minds on the forums Doc!! Thanks for posting and your research!! :wink:


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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:15 am
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Shimmilou: Todd suggests that either George Blanda or Dan Smith might be the resource for the reason why the wood block was included. It is part of the record written by A.R. Duchossoir that EC wanted the equivalent of a hardtail in the new guitar, but insisted on maintaining the trem system. It is, in my '89 and others going forward, as it was in the old guitar. I'm sorry that I cannot post a photo of the back cover of the Christies auction catalog, because a picture is worth a thousand words, as the back of the old Blackie graces that cover. Perhaps Chromeface will pick this up and supply one.

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:26 am
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On every strat I ever had, I'd loosen the screws a tad on the top of the tremolo, tighten down the claw screws and added two more springs to pull the block right against the body. Then I'd tighten up the top screws just a little bit so the tremolo isn't loose. I can still use the tremolo for low octave bends, but not for high octave. Only issue is the screw hole for the tremolo arm is angled and the new position leaves the arm a little high off the body.

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:44 am
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There's no accounting for tastes in setups, of course. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:51 am
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Great info,
When I got my hr57 strat the previous owner had the bridge
Flushed to the body and 5 springs, and it was locked, no
Wood.

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:06 am
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bluesstrattone wrote:
Great info,When I got my hr57 strat the previous owner had the bridge flushed to the body and 5 springs, and it was locked, no Wood.

It's good that you were ok with that. As soon as I can get my proverbial --- over to The Music Zoo again, I'm going have that done to mine, but I'm going to suggest to the tech that he swap the existing screws for shorter ones instead of having to drive the existing screws in another 1/4". I'm not going to mess with the trem on my Deluxe VG and certainly not my Gilmour. I'll need some flexibility in tone and I also think those two guitars should remain stock.

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:48 am
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I have recently played my '89 EC Strat with and without the wood block. As for whether or not the two are sonically different, I don't really know. The EC Strat (thanks to the non-conventional Lace Sensors which I have adjusted as close to the strings as possible) already has ridiculously good sustain. As to whether or not the block adds even more, I'll leave that up to better ears.

What I did notice different (and why I continue to use a blocked trem) is in the feel factor. The wood block makes bending strings easier because the wood block is taking the mass of the steel block out of the equation. With a wood stop in the trem cavity you no longer have to pull the string against the heavy spring tension and mass of the string block. The wood makes it impossible for the bridge block to move so now you are simply bending the string against the string's own tension -- not the springs or mass of the block.

I noticed an improvement in playability. The strings are slinkier and more willing to bend. Given EC's comments on Fender's being more difficult to play because of a longer scale length than Gibsons, it would not surprise me if he used a block to give his fingers added leverage. As always, YMMV.


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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:53 am
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That's an interesting observation because, based on Todd's remarks, I would expect that trem system to be fixed in stone. I'm gonna have to try that comparison with mine. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:48 pm
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The pull of the five springs with trem claw screws tightened does an equally good job of holding the bridge solid, it does not move at all. I can pick up the guitar by the strings and the bridge stays put, no bending will move the bridge in the least. You would need a pry bar to move a bridge held like this. If you use the block of wood instead of tightening the trem claw with 5 springs, you don't get the same reverb sound from the springs. Some might like the sound better without the added reverb sound from the springs. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:09 pm
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NeedForTweed wrote:
I have recently played my '89 EC Strat with and without the wood block.SNIP

What I did notice different (and why I continue to use a blocked trem) is in the feel factor. The wood block makes bending strings easier because the wood block is taking the mass of the steel block out of the equation. With a wood stop in the trem cavity you no longer have to pull the string against the heavy spring tension and mass of the string block. The wood makes it impossible for the bridge block to move so now you are simply bending the string against the string's own tension -- not the springs or mass of the block.
SNIP....


You might want to give what you're saying a little more thought.

If the trem is "blocked" using a block of wood and spring tension is holding the block in place, the bridge doesn't move. Right? Well, if you deck the trem Eric Johnson style, (As pictured!) once again the trem is flat against the top of the guitar, its being held in place by the tension of the springs and when you bend a string, nothing moves.

Please explain where the difference in "Feel" is coming from.

I'm asking because I have Strats that are set up using both systems and they operate and feel exactly the same and in either case, the bridge absolutely cannot move unless you apply significant force (Much more force than string tension!) to move it.


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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:48 pm
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Image[/quote]
Now here's an interesting little wrinkle. I was doing a google search 'Eric Clapton's Blackie'
and I go into a link where some pictures were posted which turned out to be the replica..front and back. In the replica, the trem claw was set as above, in the original guitar, its flush against the routing wall. :shock:

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:54 pm
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My friend and I take the opposite view on this. He has a Clapton sig, and as standard it came with a wood block as expected.

I persuaded him to take the block out. We left it with 3 springs and adjusted the claw to let the bridge float.

To my ears (and his) the resulting sound was so glorious we left it that way. It really opened the guitar right up and he could find several more tone variations. It's now a much more flexible instrument and he only needs to take the one Strat to the gig, rather than two. And even without any further tweaking the trem returns to pitch near perfectly every time, which is a testament to a fine guitar if you ask me. Normally you have to grease alll the friction points to get a standard Strat trem performing that well. I have to say that the nut is cut beautifully as well, also essential for a reliable trem performance.

Obviously there is the potential for the sound to lose a little body and sustain, when the bridge is set up this way. But you can more than compensate for that loss with a little of the guitar's built in boost.

The Clapton signature strat is without doubt a superb guitar.

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Last edited by adey on Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: ...on the Clapton 'blocked' trem
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:10 am
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Adey: Your findings are a valuable contribution to our body of knowledge on this
instrument. However, do keep in mind that the setup as manufactured is the product of the artist's 'ear' and how he wanted this instrument to sound. As for your overall assessment of the guitar, those of us who own them couldn't agree with you more.

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