I've read that many guitars owned by famous artists like Eric Johnson are Master Built guitars and NOT the same as a Custom shop guitar OR Off-The-Shelf guitar at a dealer.

So here's the question. How does one justify calling a Strat an "Eric Johnson" model when one would have to pay considerably MORE than the already high price of a std. dealer offered Eric Johnson Signature guitar to get one like his. They could be worlds apart! When EJ plays one of his signature guitars in concert......is it anywhere NEAR what you're buying in a store for $1900????? And isn't that a bit misleading? After all, you're not really buying a guitar EJ would ever play are you??? You're paying a ton of money for a guitar and just HOW close is it to the one's he plays???

OK, I'm open. Tell me I'm wrong.

Yawn. This question gets asked all the time. Do a search for more threads like it.

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Bill

I own an '01 Clapton Strat. The only difference between mine an Clapton's personal guitar at about the same time would be that one guy built his and that he would get to pick the wood. Also his doesn't have his name on the front of the headstock. Also he might ask for something slightly different in the neck chape, but over all you would be pretty hard pressed to tell the difference between mine and his.

Our guitars would have the same fret board, electronics and color. Think about it. When Clapton wanted different pick ups in hie guitar, we all got the same upgrade.

I've heard Clapton has shown up at the Guitar Center in Hollywood and dropped a $100k on guitars. So I really doubt the quality of any signature guitar is that far off from the artists actual model. Besides, most artists have their signature model based upon an old standard instrument that was made years ago for the average joe.

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Eric Johnson has publicly stated several times that he plays standard issue, Fender EJ Strats, just like yours and mine. AFAIK, there were never any production Strats with compound necks like those till the EJ SIG came along. Same with the pickups. Fender isn't even selling after-market sets. You have to buy the guitar or pay $300+ on Ebay.

The difference between us and him is, that he gets to go to the factory and hand select the guitars he wants or maybe even the parts he wants bolted together. He gets them for free and then he goes home and works them over, applying all of his tricks and tweaks.

My EJ was hand picked at the factory and then hand delivered to my dealer and it's turned out to be the finest production Strat I've ever played but my dealer also has a few exceptional personal Strats that he picked out from his deliveries over the years. He loaned me his 60th anniversary model, equipped with Titanium hardware, for a while. Wow! All proof that there are winners out there but thy are few and far between.

OTOH, it is rumored that Jeff Beck has never, ever played one of his SIGs in public. Whats up with that? ...And that Clapton story? I don't believe it. Hes been playing custom built guitars for decades. His guitars may look like a Fender or a Martin but there are no Fender parts in there (OK.... Maybe the strings. Loll!!) and his Martins are custom made in the Martin custom shop by master Luthiers, to Eric's specs. The ones he doesn't love, he auctions off with the $$$$$$$$$$ going to charity.

Someone need to tell Todd all those guitars he builds for Clapton he don,t play. Thats almost funny.

I'd like to tackle this one. First off, whether or not the signature strat is better than the instrument its based off of can swing wildly depending on the guitar its based off of. Im going to use the Eric Johnson strat because that's the one i know the most about the signature model, and the guitar its based off of.
So Fender, or Gibson, etc, find a guitar player that they believe has big enough name recognition that people would pay a premium for a guitar based off of what they play. So the Custom Shop gets ahold of said guitar. The performers guitar is usually one of 2, maybe 3 guitars that they're known for playing. The use it to record their albums, and sometime tour (but lots of times they do use the signature one, but a custom shop version made from them, because many times the original guitar is very valuable, and they dont want it stolen or destroyed). SO they start with what they know about THAT particular guitar; model, year, etc. In EJ's case, its a 1954 Fender Strat. Then they take measurements; they look at how the fretboard is radiused, any electronics changes, the neck, etc.

They take what they know about the original, then combine what may make the guitarists' guitar a bit more unique. usually its things like what years of use has done to the neck profile, and the fretboard. They come out with an "idealized" version of the guitar; like what would happen if an actual, NOS found in a basement 54 strat, and Eric Johnsons had a baby.

What they end up with, is neither an exact replica of the original 54, nor an exact replica of Eric Johnsons (though sometimes the make "tribute' guitars which usually are replicas of the performers guitar, down to scuffs being in the same place, same size, paint missing in the same place, etc). They will also include some things Mr Johnson suggests, things he thinks should be on it.

As an example; the Eric Johnson artist's series strat has jumbo frets, and a 12" radius. Neither an original 54, or EJ's strat has that. He still uses standard Fender frets. The 12" radius comes from the fact that his guitars neck has been refretted so many times, it no longer has its original 7 1/4" radius it had originally, though it may be close lower on the neck, like the 1st to 3rd fret. But radius' flatten over time from the wood being worn from playin, and the luthier sanding down the fretboard so they can clean the fret slots enough to allow the barbs on the fret to make a good purchase into the neck, so the frets dont come out. (BTW; if you have a neck with a round fretboard, and are going for a refret and want stainless steel frets; think long and hard about it. Every refret ive seen when they go from nickel to SS, especially Strats and Teles, the fret ends always eventually pop out. The SS doesnt like being bent into the radius you have to bend it to to stay on the fretboard. And because we dont like to glue frets in (hear my PRS?), we can only do the best we can; round the hell out of it, press it on home, and hope it stays).

So Ej's fretboard now has a naturally occuring compounded radius, they usually flatten the further up the neck. Instead of giving it an exact radius, they split the baby and give it a 12" radius. They also make other changes to get the same results.

About the value; Obviously an EJ strat (which ive mentioned countless times, I think is THE BEST regular production, non custom shop strat they make) at $1900, doesnt come close to his original 1954.

But there are cases where the Signature strat is worth more than the guitar its based on.
First one I can think of is the David Gilmour. That guitar (which is WAY OVERPRICED; $4000? for a remake of a CBS era 70s strat?? Come on). If the Black Strat had belonged to me, and I was the original owner; I'd be lucky if I got $500 for it.

Like i said, it's a CBS 70's strat, and thats just the body! The thing is probably on neck #6 ( I dont know crap about the history of it, just what was done to it at different points). The body isnt even its original color, it was painted black over the original finish (even if this was a desireable year, the fact that only the body is original, and the fact of what the body has been painted, as well as having BIG hunks of wood routed out of it at some point to allow a Kahler locking tremolo installed, and then taken out and had a piece of wood put back into the spot, and glued in, means it's pretty much worthless. People would want a warmoth or All Parts body, or probably even a MIM body over this. The pickups and wiring have changed so much over the years. At some point, it was sunburst, then painted black, it originally had a rosewood fretboard. I dont know what's on it now, but at some point it had a Charvel replacement neck put on it.

In this case, the price of the custom shop is MUCH higher than the value of the actual guitar (obviously as long as it doesnt have its pedigree).

Some musicians, do little more that make a couple hardware, color, and pickup suggestions, and thats it. Id say most Signature guitars, and im talking all of them; from Gibsons to Shechters to Jacksons, are little more than regular production guitars, with a few tweaks, and a few file photos of the guitar player holding it. This also applies the effects pedals, amps, etc.

So it really depends on the guitar. I find that Fender and Gibson tend more with musicians that contribute more. The Eric Johnson strat being one. He was very involved in the making of it, and a lot of unorthadox things were done to it, for the sake of tone(at least to his bloodhound ears); the solid trem block painted silver, but with the paint removed where the block meets the tremolo plate. The pickups I heard they went through an exhausting amount before they landed on them. And then when they came out with the Rosewood (another beautiful guitar, the necks are amazing for a couple reasons; 1)bindint! Look at Retroverbials photos of of his builds with the EJ(i think, they have binding).They had to re-tune the pickups to compensate for the tonal difference that happens by going from a maple fretboard to rosewood (Please dont start the Maple Vs Rosewood tone issue, im just telling you what they said).They look AMAZING, and its SUCH a rarity to see binding on a Fender neck. 2)Its a rosewood neck with a V profile, that's another big rarity, off the top of my head I cant think of one. Plus the did things like wire the second tone knob to the bridge pickup, thinned the headstock considerably ( I did this to mine, I noticed a little difference in livelyness, and attack but this could be to )the lack of string trees. Plus they made it so you cant put a tremolo spring cover over it. I dont use the cover, and think it looks sharp without the holes. Plus they used quartersawn maple.

This is JUST ONE example on how they come out. I know there are many other guitars, and stories to come with them, but im just making general statements. Please correct me if im wrong, though I know i dont need to ask for that

Thanks for the input guys.

Windwalker: I agree that a production guitar isn't going to be the same as a '54 Strat but a collection what EJ wanted in a guitar.

I've seen videos of EJ saying he played one or more of his signature guitars on tour.

I've also read that EJ uses a Master Build Sig Strat and it was stated here that he uses a production sig strat (when he's not using his original '54).

So, if EJ uses and off-the-shelf Sig Strat on tour and it does the job, GREAT! But, if he doesn't, and he instead uses a Master Built Sig Strat then what's the difference between the two besides the cost???

The refinements in the EJ Strat are intriquing and I like many of the modifications listed. I'm curious as to whether or not EJ actually plays an off-the-shelf EJ Sig Strat when he's not using his original guitar.

I also know that a LOT of one's "sound" also comes from how they play.

I once read an article discussing the artists "Sound" in reference to Eric Clapton. It talked about how so many kids wanted to get that "Eric Clapton Sound". The author stated that he had been at a concert where EC was unexpectedly called up on stage to play. He borrowed a guitar that was on stage (the amp and guitar were NOT his) and guess what???? He sounded just like Eric Clapton! LOL

Well, yeah he's going to play a masterbuilt, especially when they just give it to you. But the price of a Masterbuilt EJ strat would be cost prohibitive to mast people. I know he played a couple off the shelf EJ strats on his newest album. The MB probably has a 1-piece body. I also thinh w/masterbjuilt. You have 1 or 2 people building the majority of the guitar, as opposed to an assebly line of people.

So what you are saying is signature guitars are rip offs and we are better off just going through a bunch of MIA standards until we find one that's "just right."

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Sig guitars are fra from rip offs The EJ strats are some of the finest guitars fender has made. They rivel the CS guitars. The clapton strats are fantastic.

Again, focusing on only one part of a pretty long post. In some cases, like the David Gilmour, The Custom Shop will be a much better guitar than the one he actually plays, In the Eric Johnson, I think its one of the best ones made, and far cheaper than buying a 1954 Strat.

Personally, I think any new Strat over $2000 is a rip off. I just dont see that much $$ value to justify such a big price tag, again; a big piece (most of the time few pieces glued) of alder or ash, with a piece of maple BOLTED to it,not set. No binding, no inlay,no flamed wood(a few flamed necks, most flamed bodies Ive seen are on Plus', and those are images put on the wood, its not even real, not even a vaneer). Plus, everything is cut by machine now, so you dont need to use actual humans, you get a much more consistant product, which means less B-stock, or all out mess ups that get tossed away, which means less waste. They should be dropping in price. But, in a free market, it always goes one way, up.

I would have to agree with you there.. CS strats as cool as they are, seem to still be machine made when it comes to body and neck routing.. everything is pre-made. To an extent more 'hands on approach' is applied to them during assembly- but what your saying is that they are still all bolt on guitars

...And that's the beauty of them, since that was Leo's plan in the first place was to perhaps incorporate some of 'Henry Ford' way of thinking into the construction process an engineering marvel back in the day when electrics were semi/hollow body and there was more skill and time invovled to get a product that was more expensive and was somewhat limited in use.. there is less time in construction and assembly in Leo's design. The CS just make them how Leo intended his workers made them back in the day, which is more painstaking than todays methods at the Corona plant.

A true custom guitar I believe are the likes of PRS Private Stock, or FCS limiteds for example the Playboy and the Harley Davidson etc.. a guitar that commands a price tag to boot- yet thats just my humble opinion

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Exactlly. Fenders were always know as the guitar you could get if you couldnt afford a Gibson, now they're blown past that. If im spending $2500, I'll get a PRS or Les Paul. There isnt enough in a custom shop strat to justify the price. They started to make the fender's in a Henry Ford type assembly line to make them affordable. Someone had asked Henry Ford; "why do you pay your workers so much, and sell you cars for so little?" His response was " i want my workers to be able to afford to buy the car theyre building."
Now; $4000 for a D. Gilmour strat?? $10,000 for a SRV Tribute?? Are you kidding me? it seems to me that its something you buy if you're in a "Brewsters Millions" kind of situation, where you have to spend millions of dollars. The $10,000 SRV definitely is not $10,000 worth of guitar. Where as a $10,000 Martin, or Collings acoustic, tend to look and play like a 10,000 guitar, or at least close.