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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:42 pm
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I dont know about roasted neck, but I've seen an old Gibson mandolin burst into flames when my friend was trying to refret it. He touched the soldering iron to the end of a fret to heat it up just a little so it came out easier and didnt crack anything; and thing just burst into flames. The old nitro finish on it just went right up. I never saw anything like it before, and after watching him fork over the money to replace it, never after either. Expensive lesson to learn; if you go to use a soldering iron to help the wood give the fret up on an old nitro-finished instrument, dial it back a bit.


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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:04 pm
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jinglejangle wrote:
Look for this wood to come into wider use as more suckers buy into the story of the Emperor's beautiful new clothes, and not just for necks, either.



Fixed.

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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:41 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
A quote from John Suhr about his "vulcanized" necks:

"Basically it is baked in an oxygen free kiln after the normal drying process and very high temperature until the point where all the organic elements, sap, and everything else is baked out. It rings like a bell and is ultra stable. You can soak one side of the wood with water and it wont move shrink, bend. These are extremely stable and have excellent tonal properties. Every guitar I make for myself will be vulcanized. We are also building some with no truss rods."

If the wood is dryer and stiffer than the normal maple necks, I can see how it would have an affect on tone, maybe subtle, but there. :idea:


I can see it having an effect. Dryer wood does sound different. Acoustics sound better with age; some of this has to do with the vibrations affect on the grain and the wood, but some of it is due to the wood's oils drying as it gets older. you cant let a newer acoustic get that dry because it'll crack or warp, but if its due to age, it's drying at a slower rate. Acoustics get damaged in the winter because of the cold, but also because the heat in houses dry the air out. This is why you need to be pretty vigilant during the first few years to keep them humidified, but as they get older, not as much. The majority of guitars that get damaged like this tend to be -10 years old.
Sticking a neck in an oven will do this faster, and a neck without sting tension isnt going to break the way an acoustics top does when its strung up.


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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:37 pm
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Looks like Egliar is at it again. Compare his altered quote to the poster's actual quote.

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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:39 pm
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Yeah, I'll have one of them roasted necks and a side of collard greens. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:56 pm
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The answer that people did without before without something , hence its useless is a thin one. Some people lived to be old men before antibiotics, but I'm still going to take them if I need to. My friend uses the same; Hendrix didn't need it! Yeah, he also died in 1970. You don't think if a better mousetrap came around, he wouldn't use it! Its kind of a cynical, and very limiting outlook. You might miss something you actually end up liking. They didnnt have roller nuts, or noiseless singlecoils when the Yardbirds were around, it didnnt stop Jeff Beck from using them later.


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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:18 pm
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"Vulcanized", did someone say, "Vulcanized"?

Image

I'll have my "Vulcanized" beef medium with smashed potatoes and string beans please; don't forget the gravy!

Here's where probably half your planet will disagree with me. In the several centuries old history of the guitar, I'm sure that throughout this time span, a whole lot of other stuff was considered such as compensated nuts, curved frets, etc. Of course this stuff got resurrected during our day too. Consider: Back then, why didn't such things ever catch on to become industry standards? Fast forward to today: The above examples plus many more were touted to be the greatest innovation since sliced bread. Well, why didn't such revolutionary 'improvements' catch on today either? Is it because they are unnecessary, gimmickry, or a combination of both? This latest one fits right in.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:06 pm
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Martian wrote:
"Vulcanized", did someone say, "Vulcanized"?

Image

I'll have my "Vulcanized" beef medium with smashed potatoes and string beans please; don't forget the gravy!

Here's where probably half your planet will disagree with me. In the several centuries old history of the guitar, I'm sure that throughout this time span, a whole lot of other stuff was considered such as compensated nuts, curved frets, etc. Of course this stuff got resurrected during our day too. Consider: Back then, why didn't such things ever catch on to become industry standards? Fast forward to today: The above examples plus many more were touted to be the greatest innovation since sliced bread. Well, why didn't such revolutionary 'improvements' catch on today either? Is it because they are unnecessary, gimmickry, or a combination of both? This latest one fits right in. Gjh


As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.


Well, ill tell you the probable reason; First, people do use compensted nuts, not everyone, but people who's musical style calls for the intonation to be more precise than "just plug and play" rock or blues, like most of us. The compensted nut did make it as an industry standard, but it moved further south on the instrument, and became acoustic guitars compensated saddles, that's on every acoustic from the $99 special, to the D-100.
It didn't become industry standard because the indusrty you speak of, the manufacturers, wanted to make a lot of money, and its easier to make a lot by selling many items for a lower cost, than a handful of expensive ones. To make all these different things possible means an increase in production cost, so they echewed them. People who make pop music, and although the term pop music conjures up visions of Brittney Spears, and Justin Bieber; all the bands we grew up loving, from the Beatles, to Led Zepplinand JimiHendrix are pop music. All these groups and performers started playing as broke teenagers, who couldn't afford instruments that were made of the finest materials, and handcrafted by some blind hermit genius thatlives in the mountains somewhere, they bought mass produced, low cost equipment. After years of hearing these bands playing them, they're what everyone who came after them wanted to play. This is the reason why people will now drop THOUSANDS of dollars for a set of original PAFs, even though in reality, a lot of them sound like crap, and really only a few of them sound the way we want them to sound, but who's going to say the $2500 pickups pulled out of a broken down Les Paul, or 335 sound bad, they convince themselves they do, though in reality they could have spent $300-400 for a amazing set of modern hand-wound pickups that were made from deconstructing the best PAFs they could gather.
Most mass produced things are cheap and disposable, so that's what we buy, and what we get used to. It doesn't mean that some more obscure thing isn't better. Which is why when people make a bit of money playing, they start to amass and buy the higher ennd items.

But that's just my opinion.


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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:13 pm
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Just because a Honda Accord can get you to the same place a Bentley can doesnt mean it gets you there in the same comfort and style, and just because I cant afford the Bentley doesnt mean I cant admire its craftmanship and engineering.


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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:40 pm
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I wonder if Hendrix was trying to roast his neck when he set his guitar on fire? :roll:

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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:46 pm
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I only like the aesthetics of it- I love the tint of the maple and it goes well with the ebony board :)

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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:56 pm
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windwalker9649 wrote:
Well, ill tell you the probable reason; First, people do use compensted nuts, not everyone, but people who's musical style calls for the intonation to be more precise than "just plug and play" rock or blues, like most of us. The compensted nut did make it as an industry standard, but it moved further south on the instrument, and became acoustic guitars compensated saddles, that's on every acoustic from the $99 special, to the D-100.
It didn't become industry standard because the indusrty you speak of, the manufacturers, wanted to make a lot of money, and its easier to make a lot by selling many items for a lower cost, than a handful of expensive ones. To make all these different things possible means an increase in production cost, so they echewed them. People who make pop music, and although the term pop music conjures up visions of Brittney Spears, and Justin Bieber; all the bands we grew up loving, from the Beatles, to Led Zepplinand JimiHendrix are pop music. All these groups and performers started playing as broke teenagers, who couldn't afford instruments that were made of the finest materials, and handcrafted by some blind hermit genius thatlives in the mountains somewhere, they bought mass produced, low cost equipment. After years of hearing these bands playing them, they're what everyone who came after them wanted to play. This is the reason why people will now drop THOUSANDS of dollars for a set of original PAFs, even though in reality, a lot of them sound like crap, and really only a few of them sound the way we want them to sound, but who's going to say the $2500 pickups pulled out of a broken down Les Paul, or 335 sound bad, they convince themselves they do, though in reality they could have spent $300-400 for a amazing set of modern hand-wound pickups that were made from deconstructing the best PAFs they could gather.
Most mass produced things are cheap and disposable, so that's what we buy, and what we get used to. It doesn't mean that some more obscure thing isn't better. Which is why when people make a bit of money playing, they start to amass and buy the higher ennd items.

But that's just my opinion.


When I was apprenticing making classical guitars, we never used compensated bridges. As a matter of fact, last I checked, they still don't use compensated bridges on classical guitars. And I will surely disagree with you too that compensated saddles are on every outright metal stringed acoustic currently being made. Further, once the mold is made and/or the CNC is set for saddles of any composition, whether ridged or straight, the production cost is the same. As to pickups and mass produced items, absolutely no argument there. Granted, one (hopefully) gets what one pays for in whatever monetary range where the beauty, craftsmanship, tonality, etc. of say, a highest end Taylor shouldn't even be compared in the same sentence with some "El Kabong" pine and plywood atrocity. Lastly, objective/subjective legitimate postulations on either side of the fence would be perpetual in terms of obscure being better so I won't even delve into this. Clearly, YMMV.

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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:10 pm
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So, the term "roasted" is incorrect. This wood , according to previous posts is actually baked. Roasting involves the addition of fat or oil.
I can accept that this process would simulate the natural aging of wood, making it less prone to warping.

The original question is about tone difference between "roasted" and "unroasted"

The answer is - less than the difference between Maple and Rosewood.

That is - NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL.

It looks nice though.


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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:01 pm
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Ha ha...all of this talk about Hendrix didn't need a toasted neck, etc. is starting to crack me up. I bet if he were still around, he'd be playing something like an Ibanez or one of the aforementioned Ernie Ball/Music Man's.


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Post subject: Re: roasted maple neck
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:45 pm
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Hendrix on an Ibanez ??? I Think not.
If he didn't own the Fender company by now, he would surely have a huge contract endorsing the guitars he helped make famous.

I believe Hendrix, had he lived on, would by now have gone way back to his blues roots, like his contemporary Johnny Winter (and like JW would probably need a chair). Anyway, it would be a very different world.

Does anybody else have an opinion regarding the original question?


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