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Post subject: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:12 am
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ive had both a Squier Strat and a Fender Stratocaster, but, I wanna hear your opinions


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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:07 am
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Hi,

Your question is a little vague, as the term 'Fender Stratocaster' covers so many models these days.

What did you want to know, which is better?

Russ


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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:49 am
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The Squier Series has low price and quality if you compare to an American, Mexican or Japan Stratocaster.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:16 am
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First off, let me say this is a generalzation I'm making. There are different models, and even among the same models materials and build change from year to year. Besides the fact that they're both strat style guitars, almost everything is different. The Squires are made with woods, metal hardware and pickups and electronics that are different from what Fender uses in their MIM, MIA and Custom Shop models. Some Squires are made with Agathis, Basswood and plywood when most MIM and American made use Ash and Alder, though some of the earlier Mexicans used Basswood as well. The metal for the hardware is also a made with a different metal mixture, and mass. The pots, pickups, caps, jacks and wiring are going to be different as well.

I've had a few Squires come through for setups over the last couple months, more than I've seen ever for work coincidentaly enough. One girl wanted me to replace the spring claw because she wanted to get an aftermarket one at some point, and said the holes for the bolts were different. I looked at it and ended talking her out of doing it. The cavity in the back where the springs are was to small to even get a standard sized claw in it.

I could have routed it out, but the guitar had a problem I had to address during the setup where both strap buttons, but especially the one on the heal of the body, were just sliding out of the body. The holes for it were both just stripped out, which meant the wood wasn't hard enough to hold the threads in. So I figured if I ended up routing the back, I'd have to reset the claw screws and the new holes would be just to the side of the original one's were. The scews that came with it were much smaller than standard claw scews, they actually looked like drywall screws. Even though I would have filled the old holes before tapping the new ones, it would have been weaker.

Ive played a thinline tele from the classic vibe line, and it was pretty impressive for the money. I only played it for 10-15 minutes and didnt look at the build or anything, so i dont know much about them. Again, this is a very general opinion, obviously there are some overlaps with components and materials. Different models, and model years mean they change from one and other.

The entery level lines have gotten MUCH better relative to what you could have bought for double the money 20-25 years ago. Mid-range guitars IMO are better built now than some of Fender and Gibsons standard American models that they were building 25 years ago. In general though, if i was looking at a new Squire and a used MIM, Id always go with the MIM. I think even if you're planning on modding and hot rodding, you get a better platform to work with.


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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:15 pm
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Guitars are guitars. Some are made better than others, even in the same series.

For example, take the Squier Bullet and compare it against the Fender Standard. Price wise the Squier beats out the Fender. Quality, Fender beats out the Squier. Now take the Squier Classic Vibe vs the same Fender Standard. Price, the Squier still wins. Quality, the Squier CV is better overall than the Fender Standard.

It really depends on what you plan to do with the guitar. Are you just a beginner wondering if you want to play, or a player and want a quality guitar?

In my case, I would buy from Squier their Standards, Vintage Modified, or Classic Vibe series'. I would consider some Signature guitars as well, if it had the options I wanted. I do not have any issues from their Bullet and Affinity guitars, but I would have to put a lot of work into making them into players to fit my needs.

From Fender, I would play any of their electric guitars. Some I would have to modify for necessity, some for personal reasons. As stated above, even in the same series and year, some are just built better than others.

I always play before I pay, and I know what I am looking for. Name on the headstock means nothing to me; however, I have noticed I have a lot more Fenders than Squiers at this time.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:33 am
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windwalker9649 wrote:
First off, let me say this is a generalzation I'm making. There are different models, and even among the same models materials and build change from year to year. Besides the fact that they're both strat style guitars, almost everything is different. The Squires are made with woods, metal hardware and pickups and electronics that are different from what Fender uses in their MIM, MIA and Custom Shop models. Some Squires are made with Agathis, Basswood and plywood when most MIM and American made use Ash and Alder, though some of the earlier Mexicans used Basswood as well. The metal for the hardware is also a made with a different metal mixture, and mass. The pots, pickups, caps, jacks and wiring are going to be different as well.

I've had a few Squires come through for setups over the last couple months, more than I've seen ever for work coincidentaly enough. One girl wanted me to replace the spring claw because she wanted to get an aftermarket one at some point, and said the holes for the bolts were different. I looked at it and ended talking her out of doing it. The cavity in the back where the springs are was to small to even get a standard sized claw in it.

I could have routed it out, but the guitar had a problem I had to address during the setup where both strap buttons, but especially the one on the heal of the body, were just sliding out of the body. The holes for it were both just stripped out, which meant the wood wasn't hard enough to hold the threads in. So I figured if I ended up routing the back, I'd have to reset the claw screws and the new holes would be just to the side of the original one's were. The scews that came with it were much smaller than standard claw scews, they actually looked like drywall screws. Even though I would have filled the old holes before tapping the new ones, it would have been weaker.

Ive played a thinline tele from the classic vibe line, and it was pretty impressive for the money. I only played it for 10-15 minutes and didnt look at the build or anything, so i dont know much about them. Again, this is a very general opinion, obviously there are some overlaps with components and materials. Different models, and model years mean they change from one and other.

The entery level lines have gotten MUCH better relative to what you could have bought for double the money 20-25 years ago. Mid-range guitars IMO are better built now than some of Fender and Gibsons standard American models that they were building 25 years ago. In general though, if i was looking at a new Squire and a used MIM, Id always go with the MIM. I think even if you're planning on modding and hot rodding, you get a better platform to work with.


I disagree on the Plywood moniker, Squiers are not built out of plywood. As I know plywood it would be substandard to work with as well as often there are occasional pockets of air in between the layers.
Now laminated bodies.. Yes, but, there is nothing wrong with a laminated body since it is finished in a solid color. As a matter of fact, a laminated body will stand up to abuse much better than a solid wood body. It is stronger and in case of a crack, that crack would only affect the affected laminate, it could not travel to the rest of the laminates since they are separate strips of wood, separated by a glue joint. If you doubt just how strong properly laminated wood becomes, then look into the building trade and you will see that we use glue-lams to replace solid 2x10's where structural loads are focused.

As for the strap buttons, just go to a bigger diameter wood screw, enlarge the strap button hole if need be and reinstall with a dab of wood-glue. The screw hole diameter should match the strap button screw's diameter MINus the threads. So that as the button screw is inserted in the body, the threads cut into the wood. both properly sized, they cannot be pulled out.
But that is the key...Correct drilled out diameter to screw size.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:19 am
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Laminate is plywood. Not all plywood is the sheets you buy at home depot. Laminate is just a different way to descibe plywood, and I assure you, they have made some with it. Whenever you make a solid piece of wood by joining several "ply's"of wood together and gluing them; its plywood. Laminate is just a nicer sounding name, and is used for that reason. At the shop, we just call it what it is, plywood. You are correct the structurally, a laminate is stronger, in the case of things breaking in half, but they have a tendency to not be the best at holding screws; especially when you're scewing it into the side of the wood, where you see all the ply's together. Because of the glue, and the fact that not all of the different pieces of the wood are as strong as some of the others.
I guess if you want to split hairs, it can be said plywood's grains are run againgst each other with each piece for strength, and allow it to bow without breaking, and laminate the grains all move in one direction, but even this doesnt always hold true anymore, they're pretty much interchangeable. I think alot of people dont like the term plywood because they, or others, confuse it with particle board.

As for the strap buttons, I did replace them. The point I was making wasnt that they weren't holding anymore, as much as WHY they werent holding; weak brittle wood. Which is why I wouldnt route it.


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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:54 am
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I have to disagree about three strength of laminate or plywood, they're not as strong, structualy speaking, you far more dents, and issue with the edge of the body, because while its pretty solid front to back, the edges of it are weak.
If your taking about solid wood acoustics vs laminate, yes, laminate is stronger because its more rigid, but that affects the tone, all laminate tops are rigid, so they don't vibrate as much. Speaking of laminate acoustics; you see a lot of solid wood top/ laminate back/ sides. Some are very week built, but there is a risk with these that I spent all last winter dealing with: split or cracked tops from the dry air in the winter. Because the top is solid, but the back/ sides are laminate, the top will move and shift during season/temperature changes, while the back/ sides wont. This will cause issues with the top, as well as binding. This is most apparent on the Martin "X" series acoustics. If you ever play one, you may notice as I did that they sound great, one of the best sounding laminate bodied guitars I've played. This is a result of Martin taking the top bracing and moving it closer to the end of the body as opposed to closer to the sound hole. This lets the top vibrate more freely, but it also compromises the strength of the top.

I spent ALL last winter mostly repairing cracked acoustics from the cold winter. Keep them hydrated.

I recommend the Oasis guitar humidifier, its cheap, but works the best, better than all the more expensive ones I've used, Martin guitars recommend that one too.
And no, I don't selk them, so I don't want Holier than thou's telling me I can't sell anything here.


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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:21 am
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rkreisher wrote:
Now take the Squier Classic Vibe vs the same Fender Standard. Price, the Squier still wins. Quality, the Squier CV is better overall than the Fender Standard.


I should point out that is your opinion-I tried all and I love my standard (mex) strat...Perhaps you had a dodgy one or something...But I would disagree, the sound and build quality of my strat is great.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:50 am
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I agree with it being an opinion, and am very suspect of them being better quality, since at the start they use lower quality parts. And build quality can only really be known where its taken apart. I had a strat I thought has great build quality until I replaced the tremolo. Thats when I realized they must have put the starter hole for a post at an angle. They fixed it, but the counter sunk hole was oval instead of round.
Be careful about talking about quality. A lot of cars look like they're in great shape, they may even drive like it for a while. Its not until you pop three hood, check the fluid, and look at three frame until you really know. Sometimes they look great, then after a month you discover it needs a new transmission.


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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:53 am
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teledeluxe72 wrote:
rkreisher wrote:
Now take the Squier Classic Vibe vs the same Fender Standard. Price, the Squier still wins. Quality, the Squier CV is better overall than the Fender Standard.


I should point out that is your opinion-I tried all and I love my standard (mex) strat...Perhaps you had a dodgy one or something...But I would disagree, the sound and build quality of my strat is great.



You are correct about it being my opinion. However when I bought my CV 60 o could have easily put another 100 bucks on a MIM Standard, but could not justify the extra expence based on the models I played in the store. The CV 60 either was extremely well built or the MIM Standards I picked up were all deficient. I by no means an not saying that every MIM Standard is crap, just did not sound or play as well as the CV 60 I played.

The funny thing I found out was the Blacktop Strat I later bought was better playing and sounding than the CV 60 i had. But alas I traded that guitar in as a trade in towards an American Standard. I am totally sold on MIA having a little more magic than most of the other guitars I have owned.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:54 am
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I also very much like what Squier did with the Classic Vibe line, nice specs, great finish and playability, hard to beat that for the price.


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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:27 pm
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There is a huge difference. I started to realize that all the guys who bought Squires build a no win arguement that Squires could even better than a Standard. I've owned both. Believe me. That's not possible. Sorry Squire owners. No offense intended. They both have the same design, almost the same specs.

I watched a video about the Standard MIM, Made in Mexico Strats, and the MIA Standard and they MIM are built with the same parts as the MIA, but shipped down to Mexico. There are a couple of real differences. Here is a url for wood grades

http://www.lmii.com/wood-grading

So according to wood grades. The MIA gets an AAA, or some wood buyers grade as high as master cut, and AAAA. Some buyers don't see the need to grade about AAA.

So with some facts my guess is that the Fender Strat Deluxe has an AAAA wood grade. The MIA Standard AAA, and the MIM an AA. The squires wood might be an A or, B grade.

No I don't want to start WWIII with squire owners. But I did notice that my Standard Strat MIM sound is Amazing.

When I played an Squire, the sound was simply "Eh" it was "Ok" but it went out of tune alot.

Further the trus rod on the Standard MIM, is much higher quality, same with the bridge. The tuners on the Fender MIM Standard feel to be 18:1 ratio.

While the Squire feels to be 12:1 which means the Fender Standard takes more turning of the tuner to go completely around thus the MIM Standard has more of a percise tuning quicker.

The body on Standard looks and is more designed to create even more body resonance for a sweeter sound.

Further, the Standard HH MIM pickups are ceramic, and they stay in tune even with hot pickups that are overwound.

The Fender Strat HH MIM is in a class by itself. In fact it really only can be truly compared to a Fender Standard MIA. They are more similar, and are virutally indistinguishable.

But threads comparing the MIM vs MIA are worthy of a good debate IMO.


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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:07 am
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windwalker9649 wrote:
Laminate is plywood. Not all plywood is the sheets you buy at home depot. Laminate is just a different way to descibe plywood...


No it isn't. Plywood is layers of wood veneer (these veneers can be up to 12mm thick) laid on top of each other with the grain at 90º to each adjacent layer. Some speciality pywoods also include 45º layers.

Plywood covers a vast array of materials (constructed as above) using anything from dense birch to light open grained timbers. The veneers can be very close or very wide. They can have minimal adhesive or be pressure impregnated with resin to the point they are, to all intents, wood reinforced plastic.

Laminated wood uses blocks or strips of timber glued together with the grain in the same direction. Most Strats are laminated in so far as the body is made up of two or more blocks of timber glued together in the width. Two or three in the width is no bad thing (it may even be better than one piece). Its potentially when you get more than one block in the thickness or (worse) more than one block in the length, when it goes from being advantageous to a less desirable option.

I appreciate that plywood is made of wood laminations and is, as such, "laminated" but it is the opposing direction of veneers, and that it is made of veneers not blocks, which makes it plywood.

A dense ply might make a good body. It would certainly be stable. It would also be more predictable and repeatable than a laminated body. It would also be rather heavy. A more open grain ply would be light but would provide poor fixing potential and, I would anticipate, very poor resonance as each layer would cancel each other out.

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Post subject: Re: Squier Strat vs. Fender Stratocaster
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:52 am
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John Sims wrote:
windwalker9649 wrote:
Laminate is plywood. Not all plywood is the sheets you buy at home depot. Laminate is just a different way to descibe plywood...


No it isn't. Plywood is layers of wood veneer (these veneers can be up to 12mm thick) laid on top of each other with the grain at 90º to each adjacent layer. Some speciality pywoods also include 45º layers.

Plywood covers a vast array of materials (constructed as above) using anything from dense birch to light open grained timbers. The veneers can be very close or very wide. They can have minimal adhesive or be pressure impregnated with resin to the point they are, to all intents, wood reinforced plastic.

Laminated wood uses blocks or strips of timber glued together with the grain in the same direction. Most Strats are laminated in so far as the body is made up of two or more blocks of timber glued together in the width. Two or three in the width is no bad thing (it may even be better than one piece). Its potentially when you get more than one block in the thickness or (worse) more than one block in the length, when it goes from being advantageous to a less desirable option.

I appreciate that plywood is made of wood laminations and is, as such, "laminated" but it is the opposing direction of veneers, and that it is made of veneers not blocks, which makes it plywood.

A dense ply might make a good body. It would certainly be stable. It would also be more predictable and repeatable than a laminated body. It would also be rather heavy. A more open grain ply would be light but would provide poor fixing potential and, I would anticipate, very poor resonance as each layer would cancel each other out.


+1

I have seen home made "Strats" made from heavy, high quality plywood(cabinet grade). They hold up fine, the problem is the weight.

8)

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