Hello,

For several months now a friend and I dicuss the question what the most sound forming components of a Strat are. Is it the wood (body, neck and fretboard), is it the strings or the pickups? In other words, can one improve a bad sounding instrument by replacing the PUs? Would a contemporary Strat equipped with 57/62 PUs sound more like a 56 NOS or more like a contemporary Strat? Is it possible to give each sound forming component a rating how much it adds to the sound?

The reason behind my question is this. About a year ago my friend bought an excellent sounding guitar from a boutique manufacturer. This guitar features an ash body and nitro laquer. Yesterday, he bought another guitar from the same manufacturer, featuring the same PUs but different woods and a two component laquer. Nevertheless, both guitars sound exactly the same which raises the question whether it's the PUs that are the most important factors when it comes to the sound of a guitar.

Experienced advice would be much appreciated.

Regards,

Demo

I think you have the answer right in front of you.

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Bill

The problem, is that sound perception is subjective and everyone's ears are different. And apparently, from what I've been told here, those who can hear the subtleties and nuances in sounds are stupid, while those who can't hear them are experts. I doubt that you'll get anything constructive or scientific that can prove anything one way or the other, only convoluted diatribes about what makes a difference in the sound that a guitar produces. There is no way to quantify, or reproduce the "it sounds exactly the same" statement.

I still can't understand how a bunch of guys with tinnitus can, at the same time, have such acute hearing as to be able to definitively and unequivocally dismiss subtleties that others with good hearing can detect.

If beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it only stands to reason that sonic qualities are in the ear of the listener also.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Ah......but my amp can tell the difference between nitro and urethane.



Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

I have always admired your amps, now even more so. Did you wire up those unused "polarity" switches as some kind of guitar finish detectors?

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Shh......you're not supposed to tell anyone!



Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

Please excuse my ignorance, but why would anybody spend thousands of dollars on an expensive instrument if the answer is a set of good PUs for a fraction of that amount?

Good question! All that you really need is a Wing Ding with some Custom Shop pickups installed and bingo, monster tone! Oh, and the Wing Ding will stay perfectly in tune with a little dental floss rubbed on the nut.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Who told you that? Name them.

Cheers - C

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See here:
http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58587&start=0

For that matter even this one has some nasty comments, from both sides of the debate. Obviously some comments were removed by their author, but they were also deriding. I didn't jump in on this second link, I have had enough abuse for the time being.

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58022

Edit:
I did join the RW v Maple, but I was cool.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Yes, I guessed those might be some of the names you had in mind, though I wouldn't be surprised if you're thinking of others too. I wonder? To be fair, none of those people has called you "stupid" or named themselves "experts".

Cheers - C

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I wasn't directly singled out, but I am a "proponent", you can do the math.

Words like; utter nonsense, farce, wild suppositions, stupid statements, were directed at the proponents directly. Then to start the whole red herring line of comments, talking about pedals and other unrelated parts not even mentioned in the original statements, and twisting posters statements around, misquoting....on and on, really seem to serve no purpose other than belittling others opinions.

If someone can't hear something, it never occurred to me to consider that the are any less intelligent or cognizant or capable than I, they simply just can't hear it.

I am getting better at not taking it personally, but c'mon, that is pretty clearly insulting, whether meant that way or not. I appreciate you having a more even temperament than I, .... I'm trying.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Your question was strictly about "sound". An "electric guitar" is a "system of systems". From the very cheapest to the most expensive guitars, you have issues of finish quality, playability, fretwork, component quality, etc. Each of these may or may not affect the "sound". Then you have to consider the interconnecting cables that you are using, any effects used, the amp circuit design and components used, and the speaker. The bottom line is, the only "sound" that matters is the sound that is output from the speaker. Once you take all that into consideration, in my opinion, arguing about the "sound of a guitar" is meaningless.

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Bill

Let's play a little game. We are ignoring everything about the guitar except the pickups. Let's take your "Wing Ding" with expensive Custom Shop pickups and play it through three different amps. We will plug it directly into each amp using a magical cable which has been scientifically proven to have absolutely no effect on the electrical signal coming from the guitar. Our three amps are a WalMart solid state special, an original Fender Twin Reverb with the volume set on "6", and a dimed Marshall Plexi. All tone controls are set smack dab in the middle of the range. We play the same three tunes.

Question: What does the "guitar" sound like?

Now let's take the same guitar and play it only through the Twin Reverb but use three different pickup sets; cheap ceramics, mid-line Alnicos, high end super pickups.

Question: What does the "guitar" sound like?

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Bill

PUs effect sound the most, different wood CAN effect it, but not nearly (if at all, in some/most cases) noticeably. That being said, different woods effect sustain quite a bit, with denser wood/material giving you more sustain.

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