V-Picks!!

I've been putting a Gravity Pick Classic through its paces myself.

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You dig?

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys, but Albert King didn't use a pick, or a Stradivarius, or a Steinberger, so that proves that Little Debbie makes the best oatmeal creme pies. Plus, I can't taste the difference between ground sirloin and ground beef, so anyone else who claims that they can tell a difference is just perpetuating a myth. Next thing that you'll expect me to believe is that there are more than two colors, black and white,....please.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Well Ill have to state it one more time. When changing a particular neck from a rosewood to maple, there was an obvious change in tone. It wasnt even mentioned by me first, it was someone else in the shop. It was an unwanted change as well, that's why the tremolo came off the deck and set to float, to take some of the brightness away. You may not notice it if you're just plugging and playing, but when you're doing work on it, and make a dramatic change to a guitar, you're ears are going to be listening for change. Again, it may not be as much a difference on a floating tremolo, but it sure as hell does on one set flush.
We had an arguement in the shop as to whether or not using a different wood for the body would change the tone dramatically (my view is that it will not, there's not enough coupling the strings to the wood of the body, nor are th pickups mounted to the body), the one thing everyone COULD agree on, is in regards to its primary tone, next to the tremolo system, the fretboard is going to affect the sound.
Lets forget strats; with maple or rosewood necks for a moment and look at Les Pauls. If you strum one, acoustically, that has a rosewood fretboard, and one that has an ebony fretboard, again, all things being equal (the body and neck tenon is the same), the ebony will sound brighter. ITs a tigheter grain, a harder wood, and the strings are vibrating at a distance of a few 32's of an inch, along the whole neck.
Its obviously not jsut the material that affects it, but the mass of the neck as well. going from a vintage C shape, to the thicker V, or a Jeff Beck massive C, you're going to hear a difference.

As to sitting around thinking of the constrution of the guitar and not playing, I need to sit around and think of different ways to affect the tone. Because when someone calls me to do some work, and indicates they want something on it to audibly change, I better have some ideas, or the money for the repair/ modification goes to someone else, and if the customer is really unlucky, they'll bring it to a certain chain that opened up a repair center. This center cant do much more than rewire, setup, and maybe do a fret dressing (they send people with no experience doing work on guitars to 10 week course, and send them on their way).

If you're comparing apples to oranges, it can be hard to hear differences. But when you make a change to a guitar you've played for hundreds, or thousands of hours, you're going to hear that change. If my strat was laid next to 2 others, with the same pickups, and someone played them all blindfolded, Id know mine, i know the character of it, its attack, sustain, everything. Its like when your friend wife,husband, kid, whoever has something on their mind, you know it, they dont have to tell you, and they dont have to do something dramatic for you to know somethings different.

Id also put out that having a ton of guitars can make it more difficult to hear differences, you end up getting a little jaded. I know working with them, my view on guitars has changed. Guitars I would have drooled over, now are just another thing that needs to be fixed. Being around them so much desensitized me to them. In some ways its a good thing; now when im looking for a new guitar, the name on the headstock has very little to do with whether I get it or not, now its all about tone and playability. I dont even care about how it looks anymore (to a point, I wouldnt buy an acoustic that looks like the one the guy from "Once" played, but Im not worried about scuffs and other cosmetic things). On the other hand, I dont get as excited when a new guitar I havent played comes across the bench(except for the Collings that came in for a setup, that the shops owner bought for a song).

Point is, the theory that fretboard material changes tone has been around for a long time, and its been around for a reason, because its true. The thousands of people who talk about it (including in interviews with quotes from D.Gilmour, Eric Clapton, and Eric Johnson talking about changing the necks on their main strats, and talking about getting used to the tone that came along with it, but I guess they dont know anything about tone (although i have to admit some things I hear E.Johnson say sound kind of out there, like using a rubber band to keep his fuzzface closed instead of the scew because it sounds better).

If you have 2 strats, or 2 teles or 2 of any duplicate guitar with different fretboards on them; tighten the tremolo down flush if its not already, and listen to them UNPLUGGED, and you will hear a difference. Now, I "think" we can all agree that an electic guitars acoustic properties is going to influence how it sounds plugged in; the louder it is acoustically, the more resonant and powerful its going to sound plugged in. Obviously when you're looking for tonal differneces, its much eaiser to do with a clean amp.

I changed pickups for someone, he had a MIM w/ their stock pickups in it. I put in a set of Fralin Blues single coils, as well as the base plate for the bridge pickup (i dont know how I feel about that particular component myself), new CTS pots that were 500K instead of the normal 250 because he said he wanted the strat to be able to somewhat mimic a tele, so the higher pots made it brigher). After I was done, it was a different beast. I was pretty proud of how well it came out, tonally. The guy came in, AND COULDNT TELL THERE WAS ANYTHING DIFFERENT! Besides pissing me off, I had to feel bad for him, because everyone else heard the difference. I dont think you'd even need to hear it to know it will sound different. That's why I say I feel bad for people who cant hear the difference.

Again, when you work on guitars, pedals, and recently amps, your hearing does adapt, and I pick up on things now I didnt when I was just playing. But the neck is something everyone should be able to tell, again, if you're comparing apples to apples.

Well, don't "feel bad" for me! I hear great, and am a little too busy making music to wonder I'm missing something.

But this is another case of the Emperor's New Clothes. "Everybody" could "see" those, too.

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Jim Bordner
Gravity Music - www.gravitymusic.com
Composer, producer, Egnater Artist

You mention in your own quote that the density of the neck would impacts the sound; isnt that what we're talking about? Maple is harder and denser, which makes it brigher, and to have more mids(which make it brighter when you're using single coils). Now, I believe you when you say your rosewood neck'ed guitar is your brightest, but that may have nothing to do with the reason.
When I talk about the difference in tone, im talking unplugged, because you cant judge something like that by plugging in, too many other factors will influence the result. So pickups and wiring shouldnt come into play.
How would you compare it with your other guitars acoustically? Are the two guitars you're comparing the same?? i.e. do they have the same type of pickup routing? same finish, are the bodies both the same wood? Is one ash the other alder? Is one a two piece body and the other 3?

Got to dissagree, belive me, i dont feel sorry for you, I wish I was able to play all the time for a living, I'm envious, and im not being patronizing or sarcastic.

Oh, I forgot the most important thing about comparing them; the area you'll hear the most difference, if you hear a difference; will be on your WOUND strings. The rosewood gives it more overtones than the maple, where as the maple has more snap and focused tone.

There is on the lower strings, no real differnece in the G,B high E. but definitely a differenc in the wound strings.

There's the reason right there. And that's the reason why i think the fretboard has more to do with the EQ of the guitars acoustic tone. The strings dont come near touching the wood of the body. Its attached by a block, thats scewed to a metal plate, that's attached to the body by a few screws, and springs. The pickups are floating on a piece of plastic thats point of contact to the bodies top is relatively far away at the edge of the pickguard.

Yeah, i dont agree with that. Rosewood has a great tone, its just different. I think its more suited to rock, whereas maple is more suited to blues, or country, or anything where you're playing more clean than driven.

I agree with the wood feel thing. I had to put a finish on the neck i recently did, after shaving all that wood off it. But I used a thin layer (3 to be exact; one clear base coat, 2 tinted) of nitro. Its protected, looks awesome (after it was done curing, i just dressed the tops of the frets, and left the sides. So when you look at it at a slight angle, the frets look gold because of the tint, from the front they look silver.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

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This has nothing to do with this thread, I just noticed your user name; Orvilleowner. I'm assuming you own a Gibson Orville. If you do, what is it, and what do you think of it? I need to get a Les Paul, and im getting for the sole reason of putting a set of pickups i aquired that are the best sounding PAF style pups Ive heard, and we've had a few late 50's early 60's LP's and 335s come in with the origianl PAF's, all that were dissappointing, and points out that no set of pickups are worth $3000, and not all the vintage ones sound good). I presently have it in a PRS SE import I bought off a customer who didnt want to come up with $$ for the repair to the headstock, and everything that came with it (luckily I dont have to charge myself to fix it). The PRS is a fantastic platform, but it has a tremolo, which i have blocked, but I want something with a stoptail.
Ive been really dissapointed with the Gibson's ive seen coming out over the last year or so (plus the CEO puts a bad taste in my mouth with the whole illegal woods). Anyways, I dont want to drop a couple grand, and heard the Orvilles are pretty good, somewhere in between an American and a Epiphone, but leans more to the GIbson quality. Im also considering an import copy like the Burny's, Edwards, or Tokai's.

I'm reading over all the posts, and the recurring theme I see when people are describing the position on whether or not they hear the difference is that they all test it with their guitars plugged in. It's got to be acoustic to really hear it. I know what people are going to say; "if you only notice it unplugged, and no one plays a strat unplugged; what's the difference?" The difference is that it will make an impact on it plugged, but the primary tone is extremely important to the overall tone of the guitar.